Amazon.com:
A masterpiece of modern Gothic literature, Something Wicked This Way Comes is the memorable story of two boys, James Nightshade and William Halloway, and the evil that grips their small Midwestern town with the arrival of a "dark carnival" one Autumn midnight. How these two innocents, both age 13, save the souls of the town (as well as their own), makes for compelling reading on timeless themes. What would you do if your secret wishes could be granted by the mysterious ringmaster Mr. Dark? Bradbury excels in revealing the dark side that exists in us all, teaching us ultimately to celebrate the shadows rather than fear them. In many ways, this is a companion piece to his joyful, nostalgia-drenched Dandelion Wine, in which Bradbury presented us with one perfect summer as seen through the eyes of a 12-year-old. In Something Wicked This Way Comes, he deftly explores the fearsome delights of one perfectly terrifying, unforgettable autumn. --Stanley Wiater
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (1 of 18),
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From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@earthlink.net)
Date:
Sunday, October 15, 2000 11:40 AM
Bradbury’s prose induces a kind of languor in me. He creates
landscapes that are sweet and thick and heavily scented. His
rhythms are hypnotic. I’m in some other world which is familiar,
almost like the one I know, but different enough for me to yearn
to be there. Something Wicked This Way Comes just begs to be
read aloud. I read it differently than most books. I allowed myself
to hear each word individually in my head, to let the sentences
roll around and become a kind of poetry and song. This is the
best kind of fairy tale. One that scares you and makes you think
and connects you to the dark side and the bright side of you
inner self.
Sherry
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (2 of 18),
Read 27 times
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From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 15, 2000 12:09 PM
Sherry,
I just started it a little while ago. It brings back the 50s for
me--almost tangibly. I could smell the purple-stamped ink in the
library book and hear the leaves rustling down the street.
I haven't always enjoyed the Bradbury I've read before but so far
this one's 'got' me.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (3 of 18),
Read 20 times
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From:
Kay Dugan (okaychatt@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 15, 2000 06:37 PM
I loved his references and descriptions of books and libraries.
You're right - it's a terrific fairy tale. He writes the innocence of
young boys on an adventure very well, doesn't he?
Their world, gradually spinning out of control reminded me of the
mood set in A Boy's Life.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (4 of 18),
Read 24 times
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From:
Kay Dugan (okaychatt@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 15, 2000 06:40 PM
One thing bothered me, though. I didn't think that Jim's pull to
the carousel was adequately explained. Did it have to do with him
being the one that "saw it all" as opposed to Will taking life as it
came? That makes the most sense to me, but not enough to
explain the draw adequately.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (5 of 18),
Read 21 times
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From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 15, 2000 08:42 PM
sorry, I'm confused, is this the next book? For some reason I
wrote down The Alchemist. And now can't find list and dates
here.
thanks
Candy
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (6 of 18),
Read 21 times
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From:
Diane Freeman (dfreeman@jeffco.k12.co.us)
Date:
Sunday, October 15, 2000 09:27 PM
Bradbury turns out to be a master of terror. I have read "horror"
books that were not nearly as horrifying as this one. The scene
with Will fending off the witch in the balloon was tense as any
I've read.
I was not able to figure out the lightning rod salesman's role. He
seemed to have singled out Jim to give the free one to. Why give
any away? How did he choose Jim? Was he already a member of
the carnival who could morph like "the nephew", sort of an
advance scout, rather than a victim after their arrival? I think I
must have missed something (or probably lots of things as I follow
the discussion!)
Diane
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (7 of 18),
Read 21 times
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From:
Kay Dugan (okaychatt@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:39 PM
I was confused by the lightning rod fellow as well. He seemed
evil, but then at one point, Bradbury says he's the kind of person
that prepares people for evil, but runs before they actually have
to face it. He merely predicts/worries about the future.
The rod he offers Jim sounds like something to ward off evil to
me. "The metal thing was hammered and shaped half-crescent,
half-cross. Around the rim of the main rod little curlicues and
doohingies had been soldered on, later. The entire surface of the
rod was finely scratched and etched with strange languages,
names that could tie the tongue or break the jaw, numerals that
added to incomprehensible sums, pictographs of insect-animals all
bristle, chaff, and claw."
He goes on to warn the boys to be on guard against the "wind."
That sounds as if he's familiar with what goes on in the world. So
why does he succumb to the lure of the merry go round?
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (8 of 18),
Read 21 times
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From:
Dick Haggart (law@haggart.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 15, 2000 11:11 PM
You know, I think we read something about lightning rod salesmen
recently hereabouts. What was that...?
The Chilbained Lawyer
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (9 of 18),
Read 19 times
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 02:10 AM
Dick -- you're absolutely right -- but I have the same problem
you have -- now what was that?
Dottie -- wondering if it was a short story
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (10 of 18),
Read 19 times
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 02:37 AM
Dick -- Is it possible it was actually Bradbury? And that the title
was actually as straightforward as The Lightning Rod Man? This
was my first thought which I dismissed but to which I now have
committed -- anyone want to confirm it?
Dottie -- thinking perhaps she should have left well-enough alone
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (11 of 18),
Read 19 times
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From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 08:50 AM
I didn't have any trouble understanding the lure of the carousel
to Jim. This is something of a coming-of-age story. Jim is hungry
to grow up. Even though he is still a boy, he has been "the man
of the family" since his father left. (I must confess that though
I've read this book dozens of times, the excellent movie
adaptation has colored how I see the characters.)
I'm still unpacking books from the move and haven't yet
unearthed Something Wicked This Way comes. I'm hoping to find
it in time to read before Halloween. This is one of my all-time
favorite books and I often reread it right before Halloween. :-)
I had a discussion with a friend many years ago in which we
threw out titles of books that would be good candidates for The
Great American Novel. Something Wicked This Way Comes was
one of the books I suggested. He was horrified; he considered it
to be a very light-weight novel. Needless to say I disagreed. ;-)
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and
comfort a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (12 of 18),
Read 19 times
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From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@earthlink.net)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 08:57 AM
Dick, it was the short story by Melville with a lightning-rod
salesman in it.
Candy,
I always have a note in "The Next Book" thread around the first
of the month reiterating what our next few books are. Then there
is the webpage with all the books on there: log off, go to the
Book List page and go to the 2000 list page.
http://constantreader.com/20list1.htm
As to the question as to why Jim is so drawn to the "ride". The
two boys seem to make up one whole boy. One part plays it safe
and saves money and can really tell good from evil. The other
dares, is drawn to scary things and wants to grow up so bad he
hurts. I think that's the reason. He is absolutely thrilled by the
unknown. And it kills him that he has to restrain himself.
Sherry
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (13 of 18),
Read 19 times
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From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@earthlink.net)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 08:58 AM
Susan, we were posting at the same time. I agree about Jim, and
I had forgotten he was the "man" of the family. That would add
to his impatience.
Sherry
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (14 of 18),
Read 17 times
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 09:01 AM
Sherry -- thank you! okay Melville and I think the title was simply
The Lightning Rod Man, but once someone else verifies the title
we'll have the info -- how many CRs will it take to think we can
go check on the webpage -- chuckling to myself here!
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (15 of 18),
Read 19 times
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From:
Kay Dugan (okaychatt@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 11:27 AM
Susan-
You're right about Jim and Will being two halves of the same boy.
And, I see your point about being impatient to grow up, as most
children are.
My confusion came when Jim continued to be drawn to the
carousel, even after he had seen the evil it could do. That made
no sense to me.
This was a fun read, with beautiful prose in places. But I would
not rank it as a Great American Novel.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (16 of 18),
Read 18 times
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From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 11:29 AM
Thanks Sherry, I must have written them down mixed up. That
was a great page, and not where I first got the list when I came
on to this site. Thanks again, excuse my confusion!
Candy so much for reading The Alchemist last week!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (17 of 18),
Read 16 times
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 11:47 AM
Candy -- sounds like one of my tricks -- but you are now ahead
of us for Cohelo's turn! I haven't started any new CR books yet
so -- hopefully I'll get going soon.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (18 of 18),
Read 2 times
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From:
Mary Anne Papale (mapreads@aol.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 08:01 PM
Kay, sometime that "pull" is irresistible, even when we know that
it is risky. That is, perhaps, a working definition of adolescence.
The temptation of gaining a few extra years on the carousel was
just too great for Jim.
Also, Will has a father to work thing through with, but Jim has to
experience life on his own.
Metaphors be with you... MAP
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (19 of 29),
Read 64 times
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From:
Kay Dugan (okaychatt@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, October 16, 2000 10:20 PM
I know, and I do understand. However, it's one thing to feel an
almost irresistible pull, and another to make the choice,
*knowing* that the carousel is evil, and has caused so much
heartbreak. But, as a wise therapist once said, "People are gonna
do what they're gonna do." And, perhaps, Jim's need was greater
than his ability to reason.
I like Jim, and understand his need to grow older, as a way of
coping with his situation.
It's not just Jim, but all those adults, as well.
Bradbury offers such a beautiful coping mechanism. I hope to
resist the temptations of the carousel by enjoying today.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (20 of 29),
Read 55 times
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From:
Jane Niemeier (jniemeie@hotmail.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 17, 2000 09:08 PM
Sherry,
I liked your note about Jim and Will being two halves of the same
boy. One of my favorite chapters is the arrival of the carnival.
Chapter 12
Sometimes you see a kite so high, so wise it almost knows the
wind. It travels, then chooses to land in one spot and no other
and no matter how hard you yank, run this way or that, it will
simply break its cord, seek its resting place and bring you,
blood-mouthed running.
"Jim! Wait for me!"
So now Jim was the kite, the wild twine cut, and whatever
wisdom was his taking him away from Will who could run,
earthbound, after one so high and dark silent and suddenly
strange.
That seems to tell a lot about why Jim is so attracted to the
carousel. It is like people who are attracted to drugs even though
they know that they are destructive. It is the moment that
counts, and Jim seems like that kind of boy.
Jane, who has always been a Will
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (21 of 29),
Read 37 times
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From:
Kay Dugan (okaychatt@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, October 18, 2000 07:48 AM
Jane-
Your tag line is something I identify with. I've also always been a
Will, and have looked admiringly at the Jims, who live with such
exuberance, until they take one risk too many. Then, I'm glad I'm
more of a Will.
I know I'm sounding cranky here, and I don't really mean to. It's
just that care-free risk taking exuberance is so foreign to my dry,
analytical approach.
, who will now try to lighten up.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (22 of 29),
Read 39 times
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From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@earthlink.net)
Date:
Wednesday, October 18, 2000 08:24 AM
My favorite parts of the book were Jim discovering his father. I
liked that somebody as "old" as fifty-four could grow and become
a better person. I also liked the scenes inside the library. You can
really see Bradbury's love of books and reading shining through.
Sherry
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (23 of 29),
Read 20 times
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From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Wednesday, October 18, 2000 09:02 PM
I felt the first few chapters set the mood well. Did he change or
was it 'too much' of the same thing? I haven't read Bradbury in a
long time and what I read before I didn't like (Martian Chronicles).
To me this book is really filled with overblown prose. I think it had
charm for a couple chapters (the length of a short story) but I'm
sick of it and I'm not even half way through! Am I the only one
having this problem?
The other thing that bothers me is the
carnival/carousel/sideshow/circus theme which seems to be one
that's overused in horror. I'm waiting for the evil clown to jump
out next.
And since I feel like I should say *something* positive :)
I found the image at the end of chapter 22 when Jim and Will are
chasing the 'evil nephew' was great.
"And so they ran, three animals in starlight. A black otter. A
tomcat. A rabbit.
Me, thought Will, I'm the rabbit.
And he was white, and much afraid."
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (24 of 29),
Read 21 times
Conf:
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From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Wednesday, October 18, 2000 09:49 PM
Ack. I am still without this book. I didn't buy it with the big CR
order last February because our library listed it. Ha. It's still
listed, but it's out.
Due back, Dec 3, 1999.
Sigh.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (25 of 29),
Read 22 times
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 19, 2000 02:18 AM
Ruth -- I'd loan you mine -- secondhand with fluorescent
highlighting in several colors (I use that word very loosely here)
and markered designs and names on the edges of the pages --
courtesy of my husband's shopping who always growls at me for
marking in my own books (with pencil or black ink) -- think he is
telling me something? I want to wear my gloves almost -- it is
repulsive to look at -- used yes -- but this is way beyond that
and is so far keeping me from reading this. {G}
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (26 of 29),
Read 22 times
Conf:
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From:
Lynn Isvik (washualum@yahoo.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 19, 2000 04:58 AM
I just finally found time to finish this last night. Bo, I too was
affected by the style of prose -- at first I enjoyed it, then it
seemed to put me to sleep, but I guess I finally got used to it
because I didn't notice it as much during the last half of the
book.
What surprised me more, though, was that I kept hearing a
religious nature in the "message" in the book. There was a thread
throughout of subtle and not-so-subtle references to saviors and
the evil nature of the carnival was clearly tied to Christian religion
in the old tract about the "Autumn people". While I think every
discussion of good and evil can be viewed as having a religious
nature, Bradbury has never struck me as an author who would
focus on that aspect.
Like several here, I watched with fascination as Jim was drawn to
the carousel over and over, even after seeing its effects. I finally
decided, though, that part of it was Mr. Dark's ability to
overcome some individuals' will to do what they knew was right.
For instance, he was able to control both boys totally when he
took them from the library back to the carnival. It seemed to me
that it was the force of Will's father's love that finally broke him
out of Dark's control (there are those religious messages again).
Jim didn't have a father, so it was the force of Will's love that
finally broke him free.
The best part of the book for me, though, was the development
of Will's father as a character and the growth of his relationship
with Will. He went from almost being an object of pity -- a simple
library janitor, who worries that he's too old to be the kind of
father Will needs -- to a really strong, insightful man who finally
finds the key to overcoming the evil. He was also clever enough
to see that the evil would return -- that it's always there waiting
to take advantage of a weakness.
I enjoyed reading this, especially so close to Halloween, but I
have to agree.... Bradbury does horror much more effectively
than I had anticipated! I hope I don't spend a few nights fending
off visions of the Dust Witch!
Lynn
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (27 of 29),
Read 24 times
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 19, 2000 05:14 AM
Lynn -- I haven't opened it yet but will gulp it soon -- what a
delightful post -- I am glad you had some surprises from this --
and look forward to more input from you and comments after I've
read this.
Dottie -- reading only her second ever Bradbury --yes, GASP -- I
agree!
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (28 of 29),
Read 14 times
Conf:
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From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 19, 2000 12:14 PM
I love the prose style; it's perfect for the book. As for the evil
carnival theme being too often done---check the copyright on
this book! Sure we get evil carnivals and clowns in a lot of horror
now, but it's just ripping off Bradbury. He created a classic with
this theme and horror writers and movie makers have been
copycatting him ever since.
I too, loved the way Will's father is portrayed and developed. His
story is one of the things that gives this book poignancy and
depth.
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and
comfort a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (29 of 29),
Read 17 times
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From:
Katie Kleczka (pkleczka@uwm.edu)
Date:
Thursday, October 19, 2000 08:59 PM
This is without a doubt one of my favourite novels and for oh, so
many reasons. If there were ever a type of book that I am drawn
to it is one in which the protagonist is a 12-year old boy.
McCammon's, as already mentioned, novel is another prime
example.
But this one is special. Through seemingly simple and
unpretentious prose I am struck with terror as deep as the
yearning I feel to ride that carousel. And do I remember many
lines from the books I read? No, but I know the opening sentence
to this one by heart. I haven't re-read it yet for this year (a
yearly delight for me) as I'll tackle it on or around the 31st.
Has anyone caught the movie? It is of course not as good as the
book, but neither is it bad.
Katie
"Everything in moderation, EXCEPT for reading."
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (30 of 34), Read 23
times
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From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Friday, October 20, 2000 08:08 PM
Hi,
I finally finished a few minutes ago. I picked up a couple books about
Bradbury at the library (both written in 1980) and each has a bit about
this book in it.
I have to say that I wasn't aware that this was one of the
Green Town, Illinois books, Dandelion Wine being the first. It makes sense
to me that so many of you read and liked DW and that this would be a
'continuation' for you.
If I hadn't read the commentary I'd have missed a lot of the symbolism.
DW is apparently a 'summer' book and SWTWC is an 'autumn' book. I
noticed quite a bit in the second half of the book that Mr. Halloway
refers to them as 'summer people' etc.
In regards to Will and Jim being two halves of the same boy, I totally
missed the symbolism of their names:
Halloway (hallowed way) and Nightshade. A bit obvious now that I 'see'
it.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (31 of 34), Read 23
times
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From:
Jane Niemeier (jniemeie@hotmail.com)
Date:
Friday, October 20, 2000 09:13 PM
Hi,
I don't know that I agree that this is a Christian book. Did you notice
that when Mr. Dark came into the library, Will's father held up the Bible?
Mr. Dark grabbed the Bible and threw it into the trash, and he said that
he was not afraid of the Bible. Jim conquered Mr. Dark with his human
nature, his smile and good will.
Jane
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (32 of 34), Read 28
times
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From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Friday, October 20, 2000 09:57 PM
Lynn,
>>but I guess I finally got used to it because I didn't
notice it as much during the last half of the book.
Right after I complained I flipped over to Book II and
the prose style changed quite dramatically. I'm sure
you could send the Punctuation Police after me,
particularly the Comma Division, but I had a hard time
seeing every other sentence filled with ellipses,
emdashes and semicolons! I admire him that he could
successfully place 6 semicolons in one sentence but
hey, I found this more than a little distracting. (As I
did the piles of hyphenated words!)*end of rant*
Whoever said that it would be good to read aloud was
right. I read some of these overblown sentences aloud
to Eddie and it had a much heavier effect. Actually,
I'm glad I didn't listen to it because some of it was
depressing enough as it was!
>>What surprised me more, though, was that I kept
hearing a religious nature in the "message" in the
book. There was a thread throughout of subtle and
not-so-subtle references to saviors and the evil nature
I noticed this too, particularly at the end when Will
and Jim hid in churches etc. They did say something
like they didn't know if it would be safer there but it
felt that way. Almost as though there was an emotional
'comfort' to religion. (Didn't see this as Bradbury
critiquing religion but that the feeling was genuine. I'll
have to look up his background.)
>>Like several here, I watched with fascination as Jim
was drawn to the carousel over and over, even after
seeing its effects.
What I found particularly powerful was the end where
Jim, Will and Mr. Halloway ALL felt the desire to give
it 'one more try' and then saw the evil within
themselves and destroyed the carousel.
>>seemed to me that it was the force of Will's father's
love that finally broke him out of Dark's control
(there are those religious messages again). Jim didn't
I thought at that point that Mr. Halloway had figured
out 'the secret' of laughter vs. negative stuff from
his encounter with the witch at the library and used
that positive force to free Will and kill the witch.
I can see the "love of the father" message here but I
saw it as more of a family than religious message.
>>The best part of the book for me, though, was the
development of Will's father as a character and the
growth of his relationship with Will. He went from
This is where the story changed for me from a bunch of
'horror stuff' to a story. I felt that he was in many
ways the main character or at least the character
around which things revolved. (Yeah, savior image but I
did like him saving the day.)
>>Halloween, but I have to agree.... Bradbury does
horror much more effectively than I had anticipated!
In one of the book about Bradbury I glanced at one of
the authors talked about Bradbury's style of horror.
They said that he didn't use the supernatural but
learned much of his style from watching magicians etc.
as a kid. I'm not sure that I totally agree with that
but it did get me thinking about what kind of horror
this was and why I didn't care for it.
I think I prefer a more supernatural type of story. Or
one with a more 'unknown' twist. The two comparisons
that come to mind are The Haunting of Hill House
by Shirley Jackson and The Dreaming Jewels (also
known as The Synthetic Man) by Theodore Sturgeon. The
Jackson story had more of a supernatural element. The
Sturgeon story more of a twist. And in both cases I liked their writing
style a LOT more!
Different taste in horror.
Bo
P.S.
I have to say, though, that this story was complete in that it was
emotionally satisfying at the end. It had a beginning, middle and end
which all worked together to a complete whole.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (33 of 34), Read 21
times
Conf:
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From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 21, 2000 09:28 AM
I'm still trying to comprehend the fact that it's really been 37 years since
I read SOMETHING WICKED. I remembered it dimly as a darn good tale,
though it gets confused in my memory with DANDELION WINE and some
of Bradbury's stories, probably because the year I discovered him I
straightaway inhaled everything he'd written.
For my taste, some of Bradbury's stories have aged much better than
others, and I was afraid I'd be disappointed in SOMETHING WICKED.
About a third of the way through, though, I have to say I'm absolutely
blown away. It's much better than I remembered, and has much more to
say on human nature (reckon the perspective of 37 years could have
anything to do with that?{G}).
All in all, the combination of innocence, sincerity, and intensity strikes me
as overwhelmingly beautiful. I agree some of it is "over the top," but so is
Cormac McCarthy at times. And Eugene O'Neill. And Beethoven. And...
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (34 of 34), Read 20
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Lynn Isvik (washualum@yahoo.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 21, 2000 10:03 AM
I'm in the middle of rereading Dandelion Wine as a followup to SWTC and
found that my copy has an interesting intro by Bradbury, written in 1974.
He addresses his writing process, includes an interesting poem he wrote
on the same subject, and closes with this bit that addresses his use of
opposing sides of one thing (e.g. Jim and Will being two halves of one
boy).
"Here is my celebration, then, of death as well as life, dark as well as
light, old as well as young, smart and dumb combined, sheer joy as well
as complete terror written by a boy who once hung upside down in trees,
dressed in his bat costume with candy fangs in his mouth, who finally fell
out of the trees when he was twelve and went and found a toy-dial
typewriter and wrote his first "novel"."
Lynn
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (35 of 55),
Read 24 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 01:17 PM
In the "small world" department, an E-mail quote/joke service I
subscribe to has this segment today:
"If we listened to our intellect, we'd never have a love affair.
We'd never have a friendship. We'd never go into business,
because we'd be cynical. Well, that's nonsense. You've got to
jump off cliffs all the time and build your wings on the way down."
-Ray Bradbury
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (36 of 55),
Read 24 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Lynn Isvik (washualum@yahoo.com)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 01:20 PM
Dale, I love this quote! I must agree with his philosophy a bit,
since I seem to be continually jumping off cliffs without my
parachute and hoping those 'wings' will kick in at some point.
Lynn
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (37 of 55),
Read 27 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 01:34 PM
Lynn: I'm a congenital cliff-jumper too. At least 50% of the time,
those wings kick in, usually at the last minute.
The rest of the time...ouch. I have to lick my wounds and
recuperate awhile before climbing back up for another go. {G}
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (38 of 55),
Read 30 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 02:02 PM
I finished this one up last night. Although I'm not generally a
fantasy or SF reader, Dandelion Wine is one of my all-time
favorites.
However, Something Wicked fell flat for me. In DW, the focus was
so real, so grounded, that the flights of fancy worked. I felt the
balance tipped in this book---way over to the fantasy side, so
much so that I got bored with it.
As I did with Bradbury's writing. It was just all too much at level
10 on the fantasy/purpleprose/wordtwisting scale. Like an opera
star singing high C all the time. I needed some relief, something
grounded, something for this kind of writing to play off of. If
everything's at a fever-pitch all the time, how do you know when
it's a real fever?
I found myself skimming towards the end. But wow, that
Dust-Witch, she's the creepiest figure I have ever encountered.
Long wraiths of fingers oozing out into every nook and cranny,
like an amoeba. Shiver. I hope I don't dream about her.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (39 of 55),
Read 28 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Lynn Isvik (washualum@yahoo.com)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 02:07 PM
Dale, I had to laugh out loud at that -- it is so true! The amazing
thing is that, no matter how many times we have to lick our
wounds, we keep climbing back up there and trying it again...
Lynn
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (40 of 55),
Read 30 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 02:08 PM
Not me. I'm a Will...all the way.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (41 of 55),
Read 24 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 04:29 PM
Ruth: So it's true, then, what I've heard all my life? Where there's
a Will, there's a way?
Aaaaarghhh. Sorry. (Not) {G}
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (42 of 55),
Read 33 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 04:32 PM
Are you both blushing now -- tsk, such -- GREAT punsters!
Aaarrrrggghhh! Groans for both of you!
Dottie -- rolling her eyes and shaking her head over here in
Hasselt
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (43 of 55),
Read 21 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 04:40 PM
Dottie: Thanks for your groans. They're very useful, as it's not
long till Halloween here. I'm downloading them to distribute (along
with healthful (?) carob bars) to our trick-or-treaters. {G}
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (44 of 55),
Read 18 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Monday, October 23, 2000 08:17 PM
Ruth,
Glad to see that someone else found his style tedious. I'm
surprised that you liked DW and not this since they were both
supposed to be rather autobiographical. (I haven't even looked at
DW since it was described as being like SWTWC except without a
plot.) :)
Don't judge SF/Fantasy by this book! In fact, many people don't
consider much of Bradbury to be SF. (One of those endless
debates.) This book to me was more gothic horror. But then in
the new lingo it's "dark fantasy". PLEEZE. These categories get
ridiculous after awhile.
Wordtwisting is an apt way to describe much of what I didn't like.
I didn't want to try to decipher what he meant in every sentence
since he had so many words used in different ways: 3 or 4 nouns
strung together defining another noun, hyphenated words, etc.
I like wordsmithing. I enjoy it when someone cleverly uses a word
in a new way. But this was overkill to me. If he'd used 1/3 as
many, I think it would have been more effective.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (45 of 55),
Read 16 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:59 AM
Bo, don't worry,altho I'm generally not an SF reader, I'm not
completely virginal in that genre.
And don't let the fact that you didn't like this book put you off on
Dandelion Wine. No, there's not much of a plot, but I wouldn't
even put it in the same classification as SWTWC. To me, it's more
of a nostalgic revisiting of what it was like to be a small boy in a
small midwest town in the early part of the 20th century---with
just soupcon of fantasy thrown in. The writing is definitely not
over-the-top like it is in SWTWC.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (46 of 55),
Read 14 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 02:04 AM
Bo -- Ruth has this absolutely on target as far as the Dandelion
Wine description -- don't let SWTWC influence whether you
tackle DW!!
Dottie -- JUST starting Something Wicked today but -- since I
have a long day to myself -- maybe it'll just be a one gulp
reading. One never knows when I'm given such a chance.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (47 of 55),
Read 13 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 02:33 AM
Ruth, Dottie,
OK. I actually have something like a dozen of Bradbury's books on
the shelf here. And, DW is one of them. I promise I'll at least look.
No promises on actually reading it, though. (Never like to lie to
people. :)
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (48 of 55),
Read 10 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Kay Dugan (okaychatt@mindspring.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 09:21 AM
Bo-
I was not enamored of SWTWC either, and made myself finish it
so I could try to understand why folks admire Bradbury so much. I
have to admit I'm still confused about that, but thought it might
be that I just don't enjoy fantasy. I did enjoy his descriptions of
books and the library, though.
Dottie and Ruth-
I want to give Dandelion Wine a try eventually. I may enjoy the
premise more if it's a coming of age kind of story.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (49 of 55),
Read 9 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 09:37 AM
Okay -- I'm twenty chapters in -- and he is spooking me plenty
already -- the Cooger kid is shivery. How did I know the minute
she said it that that nephew Robert was not real somehow. And
boy! The mirrors? Some sort of preparation for a backward ride,
maybe? Will's Dad - wow - something going on there.
Please note that even though I have skimmed the thread as it
came on that I didn't pin sown info and am not going back to
reference -- thought I'd just plop down reactions and such and
let things fill in from there. Even this lousy copy of the book isn't
hurting my reading any -- if anything it's so oddball that it seems
to be adding to the creepy, chill-chasing effects.
Okay -- here's the first major section which really got to me --
what writing:
"Three..."
"Three in the morning, thought Charles Halloway, seated on the
edge of his bed. Why did the train come in at that hour?
For, he thought, it's a special hour. Women never wake then, do
they? They sleep the sleep of babes and children. But men in
middle age? They know that hour well. Oh God, midnight's not
bad, you toss but sleep again. Five or six in the morning,, there's
hope, for dawn's just under the horizon. But three, now, Christ,
three A.M.! Doctors say the body's at low tide then. The soul is
out. The blood moves slow. You're the nearest to dead that you'll
ever be save dying. Sleep is a patch of death, but three in the
morn, full wide-eyed staring, is living death! You dream with your
eyes open. God, if you had strength to rouse up, you'd slaughter
your half-dreams with buckshot! But no, you lie pinned to a deep
well-bottom that's burned dry. The moon rolls by to look at you
down there, with its idiot face. It's a long way back to sunset, a
far way on to dawn, so you summon all the fool things of your
life, the stupid lovely things done with people known so very well
who are now so very dead --- And wasn't it true, had he read it
somewhere, more people in hospitals die at Three A.M. than at
any other time...?
Stop!he cried silently.
"Charlie?" his wife said in her sleep.
Slowly, he took off the other shoe.
His wife smiled in her sleep.
Why?
She's immortal. She has a son.
Your son, too!
But what father ever really believes it? He carries no burden, he
feels no pain. What man, like woman, lies down in darkness and
gets up with child? The gentle, smiling ones own the good secret.
Oh, what strange and wonderful clocks women are. They nest in
Time. They make the flesh that hold fast and binds eternity. They
live inside the gift, know power, accept, and need not mention it.
Why speak of Time when you are Time, and shape the universal
moments, as they pass, into warmth and action? How men envy
and often hate these warm clocks, these wives,who know they
will live forever. So what do we do? We men turn terribly mean,
because we can't hold to the world or ourselves or anything. We
are blind to continuity, all breaks down, falls, melts, stops, rots,
or runs away. So, since we cannot shape Time, where does that
leave men? Sleepless. Staring.
Three A.M. That's our reward. Three in the morn. the soul's
midnight. The tide goes out, the soul ebbs. And a train arrives at
an hour of despair.....Why?
"Charlie...?"
His wife's hand moved to his.
"You...all right...Charlie?"
She drowsed.
He did not answer.
He could not tell her how he was.
This passage really got me down -- I want to ask how the rest of
you feel about his definitions here -- about the differentiations he
makes between men and women here -- does one gender have a
heavier investment in "the midnight of the soul" and if so does he
have it attributed to the correct gender? What reaction
/comment is there on this definition of women as Time and clocks
and awareness of women to the continuity of things in life and
death?
As I said -- I'm getting willy-nillys already!
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (50 of 55),
Read 8 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 09:41 AM
Dottie: This section you quote is the precise one that most
knocked me out, coming back to the book 37 years later. I'm sure
these musings went totally over my head at 13, but now I think
they're tremendously insightful and, in my own experience at
least, right on the money.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (51 of 55),
Read 9 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 09:49 AM
Dale -- no, probably wouldn't mean much to an adolescent but I
got really grabbed and teary and as I said, downright spooked
here.
So -- what about it -- no thoughts that his division of these
things might go both ways -- that women may feel that Three
A.M. -- soul gone out and body not able to go grab reality back?
Are these things really so cut and divided as this seems to say? I
found myself relating very heavily to that Three A.N. midnight of
the soul and the way it's so even to go back to life at either end
-- the sunset of yesterday or the dawn of the new day ahead.
The thoughts of all "the stupid lovely things done with people
known so very well who are now so very dead---" that phrase
makes my throat close up and shivers run down my spine. Maybe
I've just been to this spot too recently and so this is talking
louder to me.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (52 of 55),
Read 9 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 09:58 AM
Dottie: I'm sure the 3 a.m. syndrome is not totally a franchise of
one gender, but Bradbury's reflections seem generally true from
my male point of view, at least.
Some writer (Goethe? I forget...) once called 3 a.m. "The Wolf
Hour," because the brain seems to feed on itself and its worst
fears.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (53 of 55),
Read 11 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 10:02 AM
Dale -- wow -- rather apt I think -- Wolves eating their paws off
to escape traps -- people feeding on their own fears -- escaping
from traps of their own making. Thanks, Dale.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (54 of 55),
Read 11 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 10:01 AM
Also -- Kay and Bo -- I don't usually get this crazy about a book.
I have a few, oh, maybe about a half dozen, about which I feel
as I feel about Dandelion Wine. I am not a science fiction ,
fantasy or horror fan in any way though I have read selected bits
of all of them. SO -- let me tell you -- there is very little in DW
and when I read it, it jangled me -- but not so much that it said
this is horror or sci-fi and made me put the book down. It's gentle
and it tells me something about the characters in DW. I fell
absolutely in love with this book. I can't say it any other way. As
for SWTWC compared to DW -- in the first twenty chapters that
I've read there's an immeasurably larger amount of the odd,
supernatural kind of feel than in the whole of DW -- at least
that's my feeling thus far.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (55 of 55),
Read 9 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 10:30 AM
Another bit here which rang some bells for me and set off alarms
--
When the boys find the lightning rod man's bag near the carnival
site:
"People," said Jim,"don't leave their whole life lying around. This is
everything that old man owned. Something important---"Jim
breathed soft fire---"made him forget. So he just walked off and
left this here."
"What? What's so important you forgeteverything?"
"Why---" Jim examine his friend, curiously, twilight in his
face--"no one can tell you. You find out yourself. Mysteries and
mysteries. Storm salesman. Storm salesman's bag. If we don't
looknow, we might never know."
And of course Will follows Jim and they stay and see what
happens in the closed down time at the carnival -- but this
knowing of Jim's -- that no one tells you or can tell you what is
important enough to make you/any person leave everything/one's
"whole life" unnerved me very nicely.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (56 of 63),
Read 15 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 02:17 PM
Kay,
I hope you won't judge all fantastic lit by this book. If I had to
pidgeonhole it, I'd called it gothic horror which is very
atmospheric. Bradbury does this very well.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (57 of 63),
Read 17 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 02:36 PM
Bo -- Don't know about Kay but I said elsewhere that this one is
sitting in the back corners of the gray matter (like a lump of food
sits in your tummy only this is giving me a tummyache in my
brain) and I have decided not to say any more till I've thought
about it some more -- I WILL say that the characters are what
saved it for me, otherwise I might have tossed it -- have only
read Dandelion Wine and this one.
I really think that once I let it simmer, I may be okay with more of
it than I feel I am right now -- and maybe I rushed it too much --
only a couple of days -- I should have slowed down and taken
things in slower perhaps as I knew I have difficulty with this kind
of tale.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (58 of 63),
Read 18 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 02:40 PM
The way I took that wonderful "3am" passage quoted in one of
the messages above was not that there really is a specific
difference between men and women in this respect. Plenty of
women feel mortal and desolate at 3 am. The way I took the
passage is that it articulated how he felt, that making this
distinction was just emphasizing his sense of being totally alone in
the universe, alone with his misgivings, his life and his fears. We
all have moments in which we feel like no one could possibly
understand what we are going through.
I think for him it was sort of a "dark night of the soul" thing which
if I remember correctly is a state spiritual aridity and seeming
isolation which precedes a time of peace, light and communion
with God.
It's always darkest before the dawn. :-)
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and
comfort a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (59 of 63),
Read 19 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 02:52 PM
Susan -- I like your take on this -- yes, I guess I was trying to
generalize the whole thing a bit.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (60 of 63),
Read 14 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 07:13 PM
Dottie,
I like the book a lot more now that I'm done with it. :)
This is a rare thing with me but sometimes I don't actually enjoy
reading a book but find that it sorta mellows with age. I am glad I
read it. I think the overall effect is quite powerful.
Today is a perfect day here to be reading it---most of the leaves
are off the trees, a storm is blowing in, the air has that October
chill and we know that soon it's going to be dark very early!
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (61 of 63),
Read 15 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 07:26 PM
Bo -- Part of my problem here is that I realize now I didn't put
aside my strong personal feelings concerning matters which are
key to the entire story of SWTWC -- Halloween and carnivals. I'm
not big on either of these -- even as a child -- I went trick or
treating in our little town but it was greed -- I just wanted that
candy and all the other cool stuff to eat (which in those days
was not contaminated and/or tossed in case of such). Maybe not
even that -- cause half the time my mother says she'd find my
candy in some toy or other container in the toychest all gone to
yuck after a month or so. I don't know.
As I say -- maybe I let my own thinking get in the way of this.
SO letting it percolate a while may help.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (62 of 63),
Read 5 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Mary Anne Papale (mapreads@aol.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 10:25 PM
I have this "thing" about wondering why and how authors choose
the titles of their works. In this case, Bradbury gives the
Shakespeare quote, which includes the title, in Chapter 37. To
take this a few steps further, it is from Act IV, Scene 1 of
Macbeth, generally considered the most terrifying of all of
Shakespeare's plays. The comment is made by one of the witches
just prior to Macbeth's entry. But so much evil has already
occurred that the audience is generally ready to cry for mercy.
In this book, the passage is remembered by Charles Halloway, as
he is preparing for his encounter in the library with the Dust
Witch and Mr. Dark. In this context, it seems like the only thing
to consider. "So vague, yet so immense."
On another note, I loved Chapter 31: "Nothing much else
happened, all the rest of that night."
Metaphors be with you... MAP
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (63 of 63),
Read 3 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 11:34 PM
I have really enjoyed reading all the comments here. It is difficult
for me to be rational about this book as it was a HUGE story for
me when I was young. I picked it up today, and just got so into
the boys and their world. How he describes boys running!!!
I remember running like that with my sister and our
friends...ahhh...in this book I feel the wind as a kid I feel ideas as
a I did when I was a kid. I can see how it might not have aged
well, I wonder if kids even read it now(although I think kids who
like Harry Potter might like this? but I hardly begin to know what
10 and 11 year olds read anymore, do they read ha ha)and I think
this is about the age I would recommend to read this book. Yeah,
about 10 or 11. I also have found parts of it tricky and
uncomfortable to read...but I remember when I was young
reading this and my feeling was all these associations and images
blending into one another. I do feel very afraid when I am reading
this...even all these years later I still feel so afraid in this book.
There have been parts where I smiled because of the memory of
how I felt reading certain ideas and descriptions I think there are
some very cool bits in here.
Like:"Lightning unraveled itself over the sweated outflung boys,
delivered flame to the silent horse stampede to light their way
around, around with the figure lying on the platform no longer a
boy no longer a man but more than a man and even more and
even more, much more than that, around, around."
I don't know, it's weird yes and maybe too heavy handed, but
something about it really cranks up my imagination, it's almost
primal some of the ways he has written little passages in this.
Somehow hitting a part of my mind. I don't know, just gets me in
a weird way.
Um I agree Bo, this would not be science fiction, but gothic
horror. It's like 60's version of H.P. Lovecraft.
I love that part that you pulled out Dottie. I see as so insightful.
By the way, I sleep only four hours a night. I wake up every day
between 3;15 and 3;30. I absolutely love that time of the day.
Everything is quiet and I find my cup of tea and I check my e mail
or read for a couple of hours watch the sun rise, then I write for
a couple of hours. When the rest of the world wakes up or gets
to work I am already been busy for a few hours in my
imagination...
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (64 of 72), Read 22
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Friday, October 27, 2000 01:54 AM
MAP -- Candy -- you are getting me started on this "lump" and it looks
as though it will wind up right up there with Dandelion Wine. You helped
remind me of all the descriptive and humorous stretches in this -- and
yes, there is an innocence to the running --as in my own past. Lots to
think of -- my own reaction is I think from stretching what I am reading
and notes such as these are why it helps me to stretch my reading
boundaries here on CR in some instances at least.
Dottie -- mulling this one over and thinking perhaps MacBeth is a good
next step
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (65 of 72), Read 15
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Diane Freeman (dfreeman@jeffco.k12.co.us)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 12:52 AM
Much as I enjoyed this book and found the tension near terrifying, I was
bothered by Bradbury's dismissive if not downright misogynistic
tendencies toward women. The 3 a.m. quote was one of the places
where I felt this. Women do not figure in his other works that I have
read, except perhaps Montag's wife in Fahrenheit 451 and that is
certainly very unflattering.
Diane
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (66 of 72), Read 17
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 03:30 AM
Diane -- having read only SWTWC and Dandelion Wine I'm not sure I can
answer this -- oh, and F451 years and years ago so even your possible
good example escapes memory. I don't recall feeling this way in DW and
even my quibble with the three AM thing here in this discussion was the
only place I felt this tilted view came through in SWTWC. I will look for
this when rereading or reading new (to me) Bradbury in the future
though.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (67 of 72), Read 21
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 05:46 AM
Well, here it is the 'wolf hour'...that is on the west coast...
again, this is the time I feel the exact opposite of the descriptions
regarding this time period in SWTWC. It feels all mellow and cosy and
ready for the sun to come up...
Interesting comments Diane, but somehow I thought that section was
more critical of men's anxieties than women being able to sleep through
the night without panic attacks.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (68 of 72), Read 23
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 10:25 AM
I get the 3 am jangles in spades. Absolute worst time to be awake. I'm
alone in the world and nobody even cares about all my troubles, which at
that time of night are all waiting with bared fangs to gobble me up.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (69 of 72), Read 20
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Pres Lancaster (plancast@slip.net)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 11:24 AM
Yeah. I noticed you had all those tooth marks on your arms and legs. {G}
FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (70 of 72), Read 23
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 01:39 PM
When I was a teenager my mother gave me one of 'those lectures' which
pretty said that anyone out or up until 3 am was a tramp. I've always
been a night owl and I'm sure this has disappointed her. :)
3 am, or actually late night in general has always been a comforting time
for me. I seldom feel lonely but if I do it's more likely to hit me during
daylight hours than in the middle of the night.
A number of years ago I had some health problems and I had a hard time
keeping to a 24 hour sleep schedule. I slept when I could and it ended up
being 26-28 hours a night.
This means that for about a year I slept "around the clock". It was really
an interesting sociological experience because I could experience ALL the
different parts of the day from different perspectives. I could get to
places when they opened first thing in the morning (not something I
normally experience) or go grocery shopping at 3 am.
Every part of the day has its own charm when you see it that way.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (71 of 72), Read 14
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 11:31 PM
Its true evey part of the day has it's charms, thats probably why I liketo
stay awake for most of a day. I hate to miss anything.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (72 of 72), Read 10
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 29, 2000 01:46 AM
Picked up a few tidbits about Bradbury in this new book, About the
Author (see posting in CR).
Did someone already post his webpage?
http://www.brookingbook.com/bradbury
And, Dale, you might want to try Bradbury Himself Reads 19 Complete
Stories.
http://www.audiopartners.com
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (73 of 79), Read 84
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Diane Freeman (dfreeman@jeffco.k12.co.us)
Date:
Sunday, October 29, 2000 12:01 PM
Ooops, there's a little typo in the link to the Ray Bradbury page (needs
an s in the middle). I think this one will work
http://www.brookingsbook.com/bradbury/
Diane
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (74 of 79), Read 85
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 29, 2000 01:31 PM
Thanks, Diane.
My typing is exceptionally bad today. I'm glad for the spellchecker.
As I just mentioned to you over in CR there's a ton of Bradbury info on
the Bookwebsites.com site. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to
do the URL.
Go through the menus:
author>genre>scifi>B>Bradbury
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (75 of 79), Read 88
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Jane Niemeier (jniemeie@hotmail.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 29, 2000 08:33 PM
I agree with Diane about Bradbury's portraits of women in this book,
especially the portraits of the mothers. They might as well not be there.
They are mentioned only a couple of times, and Jim's mother is in the
book once. They are cardboard characters. The only interesting woman
is the witch and she is filled with sawdust.
Jane
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (76 of 79), Read 19
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Katie Kleczka (pkleczka@uwm.edu)
Date:
Monday, October 30, 2000 05:44 PM
Jane et al:
About the treatment of women in SWTWC, I've often thought that a
clear focus on women and relationships with women/mothers is mostly
irrelevant to the kind of story that Bradbury is telling. In my experience
of the narrative, our main concern is with boys and the relationships (or
absence thereof) between them and their fathers/father figures (like it
or not, our venerable and evil carnival bigwig has a paternal
influence...at least for Jim). I guess the question I'm now asking myself
is "what advantage would there be to focusing more on the female
characters?"
Just a thought.
Katie
"Everything in moderation, EXCEPT for reading."
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (77 of 79), Read 22
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Monday, October 30, 2000 05:54 PM
I think I'm in agreement with Katie. The only thing that rubbed me a little
wrong was that bit about women being so different from men and having
some big dark biological secret.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (78 of 79), Read 20
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 31, 2000 01:28 AM
Ruth -- THAT part about the biological secret and all that was what
made me not worry about the lack of more on the mothers -- I felt he
was saying mothers/women had these connections more built in and did
a better job of connecting whether or not they were mothers. It was
the #AM thing that bothered me and now I think it may have bothered
me for the very reason that it MISreads these female "secret" and
connections thing which he seemed to do so well with elsewhere.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (79 of 79), Read 21
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Tuesday, October 31, 2000 09:06 AM
Dottie, I agree with Kay that women were not part of the story, and
that they needn't have been part of the story. It was about fathers and
sons.
But I was bothered by the "female secrets" thing because I thought it
was not insightful, but merely bought into cliche.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (80 of 106), Read 36
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Thursday, November 02, 2000 12:34 PM
I don't understand why everyone seems to be so fixated on the whole
male female thing. It really has no bearing on the story whatsoever. This
is a "boys' story", a coming of age story, the story of a father and a son,
(and a story of best friends). It's perfectly legitimate for people to write
about male relationships, for goodness sake. I really think you all are
making a mountain out of a molehill by obsessing about an off-the-cuff
remark on the difference between men and women.
More interesting to me is the symbolism in this story and the underlying
significance of certain moments. For instance, I've never been able to
understand the significance of Mr. Dark singing "I heard the Bells on
Christmas Day" while he puts up posters for the carnival. And what about
that moment early on when Will's father when they are talking about
alcohol being the elixir Of Life and Will's father says, 'I don't need it, but
someone inside me does.'...So he drank, eyes shut, listening to hear if
that thing inside turned over again, rustling inside the deep bons that
were stacked for burning but never burned." That always made me
wonder if there was a wild kid like *Jim* inside Mr. Halloway. Did the
passage refer to his lost youth, or did it referred to a long suppressed
yearning to run wild and do dangerous things (like Jim).
Then there are the questions raised about the lightening rod salesman. I
have always thought of him as a prophet. But why did he fall to the lure
of the carnival? Surely he knew? Maybe he was a prophet of only vague
vision. He could see the storms, smell the coming evil in the air, he could
tell who was ripe for being struck, but he did not know his own heart; he
was not introspective and did not realize that he was ripe for plucking or
that the storm that he feared and that he always stayed ahead of would
not look like a storm, but would look like beauty if he lingered long
enough to see it. A man of gifts, but limited gifts and the
short-sightedness of his vision was his doom.
There are many interesting moments in this book, fascinating glimpses
into human nature and questions the author leaves with us rather than
answering. This is a meaty book. I've been sort of disappointed that the
discussion hasn't really sunk it's teeth into the meat, but instead picks at
peripheral things.
I'd love for someone to come up with a good explanation of the "I Heard
The Bells on Christmas Day" moment. That has puzzled me for years! :-)
It seems significant, but a such a weird choice for Mr. Dark to sing that
I've never been able to fathom what's behind it.
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and comfort
a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (81 of 106), Read 42
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Thursday, November 02, 2000 01:12 PM
Susan,
>>I heard the Bells on Christmas Day" while he puts up posters for the
carnival.
Someone mentioned the religious allusions in the book. I guess I saw this
as a 'good vs. evil' thing with evil *thinking* it was winning. (Mr. Dark
making fun of a religious type thing.)
>>And what about that moment early on when Will's father when they
are talking about alcohol being the elixir Of Life and Will's father says, 'I
don't need it, but someone inside me does.'...So he drank, eyes shut,
listening to hear if that thing inside turned over again, rustling inside the
deep bons that were stacked for burning but never burned." That always
made me wonder if there was a wild kid like *Jim* inside Mr. Halloway.
Did the passage refer to his lost youth, or did it referred to a long
suppressed yearning to run wild and do dangerous things (like Jim).
I saw it as the latter. I think that near the end there are a number of
places where Mr. Halloway and the others are *pulled* towards evil. The
part I liked best was when they were all tempted to go on the
carosel--each seeing what it might do for them. I see the passage you
quoted as a lead-up to that passage. Showing how everyone is
vulnerable to evil--even in this case, the 'hero' of the story.
>>Then there are the questions raised about the lightening rod salesman.
I have always thought of him as a prophet. But why did he fall to the lure
of the carnival?
I saw it as him not being as strong as Mr. Halloway---giving in to that
temptation. It WAS strong, afterall.
>>This is a meaty book. I've been sort of disappointed that the
discussion hasn't really sunk it's teeth into the meat, but instead picks at
peripheral things.
Keep bringing them up. I'll try. ;)
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (82 of 106), Read 34
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Friday, November 03, 2000 02:42 PM
Susan -- it was YOUR turn to bring the "main dish" to the discussion
obviously {G} -- I think I set off all that man and woman stuff and
though I did have the reaction to it that I've outlined -- sorry if it drew
the talk off on a tangent.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (83 of 106), Read 35
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Edd Houghton (eddh@pacbell.net)
Date:
Friday, November 03, 2000 07:45 PM
Well, I think it's a great American novel. Maybe not the greatest, but
right up there. While some may think of the writing as "flowery", I am
enthralled with the way the words sound, how they react in the few gray
cells remaining between my ears, and mostly for the reaction in the pit of
my stomach.
The dust witch, for instance, has a special way of speaking:
"Tell you your husbands. Tell you your wives. Tell you your
fortunes. Tell you your lives. See me. I know. See me at the show.
Tell you the color of his eyes. Tell you the color of her lies. Tell you
the color of his goal. Tell you the color of her soul. Come now, don't
go. See me, see me at the show."
And why didn't Mr Bradbury choose to print the dust witch's lines in
poetic form. He could have. The words are the same, but do they have
more impact if the rhythm is hidden from the eye, and only enters the
consciousness indirectly. Sort of a stealth poetry. The same words:
"Tell you your husbands.
Tell you your wives.
Tell you your fortunes.
Tell you your lives.
See me. I know.
See me at the show.
Tell you the color of his eyes.
Tell you the color of her lies.
Tell you the color of his goal.
Tell you the color of her soul.
Come now, don't go.
See me at the show.
EDD
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (84 of 106), Read 34
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@earthlink.net)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 06:39 AM
I love your idea of "stealth poetry", Edd.
Sherry trying not to post too much because I'm tying up my mother's
phone line.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (85 of 106), Read 36
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 08:01 AM
Bo,
Sorry but I can't buy your "I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day"
explanation. :-) There's nothing in the text to indicate that Dr. Dark was
mocking Christianity. He wasn't even singing the lyrics; he was whistling.
The focus of the moment seems to be Halloway's reaction to hearing the
song. Given the lyrics printed between paragraphs I think we are
supposed to think he is sort of hearing the lyrics in his head along with
the whistling. But I don't really understand his reaction to hearing the
song.
It was a tune from another season, one that never ceased making
Charles Halloway sad when he heard it. The song was incongruous
for October, but immensely moving, overwhelming, no matter what
day or what month it was sung:
I heard the bells on Chirstmas Day
Their old familiar carols play,
And wild and sweet
Their words repeat
Of peace on earth, good will to men!
Charles Halloway shivered. Suddenly there was the old sense of
terrified elation, of wanting to laugh and cry together when he saw
the innocents of the earth wandering the snowy streets the day
before Christmas among all the tired men and women whose faces
were dirty with guilt, unwashed of sin and smashed like small
windows by life that hit without warning. Ran, hid, came back and
hit again.
Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
God is not dead, not doth he sleep!
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good will to men.
I don't understand why it always makes him sad, why it makes him think
of people beaten down by sin and life. (Are the innocents he refers to
Will and Jim?)
If we assume some sort of omniscience on the part of Mr. Dark we might
assume that he chose that song because it would make Charles Halloway
feel melancholy, but while that answered the immediate question of why
Dark would chose such an uplifting (and prophetic!) religious song, it
evades the question of why Halloway feels that way about an uplifting
song.
I still find the passage strange...and I have a hard time visualizing Mr.
Dark humming a Christmas carol that in effect says that he cannot
succeed in his quest to get souls.
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and comfort
a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (86 of 106), Read 36
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Katie Kleczka (pkleczka@uwm.edu)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 08:50 AM
Susan wrote:
"If we assume some sort of omniscience on the part of Mr. Dark we
might
assume that he chose that song because it would make Charles
Halloway
feel melancholy, but while that answered the immediate question of why
Dark would chose such an uplifting (and prophetic!) religious song, it
evades the question of why Halloway feels that way about an uplifting
song.
I still find the passage strange...and I have a hard time visualizing Mr.
Dark humming a Christmas carol that in effect says that he cannot
succeed in his quest to get souls."
Susan,
A couple of thoughts came to mind when I read your post. First, I don't
personally find it odd that Halloway would feel saddened by the uplifting
Christmas song. There is a part of of Christmas that always makes me
feel sad, a lonely quality that especially the brightest, happiest songs
and lyrics can underscore.
But Halloway is dealing with so much more. Yearning for youth, yet
possessing the vast wisdom of age...and experience (we are encouraged
to believe that he knows Dark quite well), I think Halloway also possesses
an omniscient quality which leaves him with an acute understanding of
man's dark side. Think about it this way perhaps: Halloway is being
portrayed as Dark's nemesis and this relationship is representative of the
good we find juxtaposed against the bad (Halloway=Hallowed Way? Why
not?) :) So, Halloway's wisdom, experience, and knowledge of man's inner
demons (he has an intimate association with this aspect judging from his
own inner life!), adversely affects his experience of the whistled carol.
Another idea. The tune is like a mask for Dark in the vein of a wolf in
sheep's clothing. He evokes images of gifts and happy times with that
tune in potential "customers," but Halloway can see through that mask
and hence his reaction.
Dark's use of the tune? Well, in addition to it masking his baser nature, I
think he is flaunting his arrogance and perceived power by singing a
religious song. After all, the devil is often portrayed as an "in God's face"
kind of entity (you hold up the cross as your shield and the devil laughs
mockingly; that sort of thing). And so in this instance, he isn't saying
that he cannot succeed in taking souls. Rather, he is taunting God and
trivializing His power to protect you.
A bit rambling, but understandable, I hope.
:)
Katie
"Everything in moderation, EXCEPT for reading."
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (87 of 106), Read 37
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:06 AM
I think it is very much about Halloway in wolf's clothing. And his name
definitely references Hallowed Way. He is like a fallen angel who knows
both sides of evil and good.
He plays people.
I can not listen to many Xmas songs without getting weepy(this also
goes for Springsteen songs these days too! all sentimental to me now)
and with a mixture of emotions. I also cry at those hokey 'phone home'
commercials too yike.
I thought innocents were all the children on the streets. How when we
get to be tired men and women from when once we ran through the
snow and rain as kids/innocents playing and silly.
Halloways grasp on people is he gets them when they are tired too,
without joy we are weak as grownups.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (88 of 106), Read 38
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 12:18 PM
Whew -- I had no difficulty at all with the sad reaction to this Christmas
song -- this is one of my own very favorites and I often play it louder
and more frequently if I am having a particularly blue season of holidays
-- because it makes me weep even in a high and happy holiday season
so why not just let it wash things well away in a depressed one?
And that last verse -- the one where God is not dead nor does He sleep
-- beats into one over and over and eventually the mood lifts.
There are others -- can't pinpoint specifics -- but melancholy at the
state of humanity when Christmas is before us -- it can get bleak -- why
else is it suicide season?
EDD -- Something Wicked is growing on me -- I just had to let it
percolate longer -- should have SIPPED it rather than gulped it. It is
gaining on Dandelion Wine -- and will wind up just a bit behind as I am
sure that will forever be my favorite -- and not because it was the first
of the Bradbury I read.
Dottie -- who is thinking about revisiting this one sooner than later
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (89 of 106), Read 39
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 12:35 PM
Dottie, you just put your finger on one of the big charms of this place.
While reading everyone's comments, you find that books which you may
have originally dismissed, in fact growing on you.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (90 of 106), Read 41
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 01:13 PM
Ruth -- This fantasy or whatever stuff is always hard for me and -- in
truth I have read little of it but always wind up having it work through
and sit okay -- but this one I went into with a bad case of -- I'm reading
this and the faster the better and I am probably not going to like it much
so just see what happens. I gulped it down and DARED Bradbury to make
me like it -- because even the tiny bit of not really within the realm of
reality that sat in Dandelion Wine almost threw me and you may recall
how entirely enthralled I really was with that one.
ANYWAY -- I knew I hadn't given this a fair reading -- hadn't gone into it
at all fairmindedly to start with -- and so have been thinking as I read
the thread and giving myself time to take in what I SHOULD have done
for myself as I read slowly.
That's what CR is for as you say!
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (91 of 106), Read 30
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 06:29 PM
Susan,
>>Sorry but I can't buy your "I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day"
explanation. :-)
Good, discussion! :)
I had a bear of a time finding this quote. I thought it was near the end of
the book. It's actually near the beginning of the book where we get the
'set up' for Charles Halloway. The part right before the section you
quoted, I think sets it up somewhat--
"the gray hairs on the back of his hand, like antennae, had felt something
beyond slide by in the October night."
(This is the beginning of chapter 5) and the 'icy' feel he has represents
the darkness that Mr. Dark is bringing. I think this is a good
foreshadowing of things to come. Christmas here may well be a sign of
that iciness. Each of the seasons tend to have signficance for Bradbury
and I'm sure this was no accident. Those first few paragraphs of that
chapter really are GRIM--end of the world type grim.
>>There's nothing in the text to indicate that Dr. Dark was mocking
Christianity. He wasn't even singing the lyrics;
I guess I was thinking about later near the end of the book where he
takes the Bible and reads from it to 'show' that it has no effect on him in
talisman-type fashion.
>> But I don't really understand his reaction to hearing the song.
Right before the second refrain he sees innocents and guilty all hit with
the horrible things of life and then hit again. Bradbury uses the phrase
"terrified elation". I think this describes the conflict between hope in God
and fear of being squashed by evil that's going on inside and around
Halloway at this point.
>>incongruous for October, but immensely moving, overwhelming, no
matter what day or what month it was sung:
And later if you read past the second refrain---Charles is 'flushed with
summer heat'.
>>I don't understand why it always makes him sad, why it makes him
think of people beaten down by sin and life. (Are the innocents he refers
to Will and Jim?)
I see the song as a song of plaintiveness to God about how terrible
conditions are and then reaffirmation of faith that God isn't going to let
him rot as he fears.
Bradbury only used the first & third verses. I'll see if I can type this out
(my typing isn't the best). Maybe it'll make more sense if you get the
whole song. (Apologies to those not interested in this.) This is written by
Longfellow, btw, and maybe there's a longer version somewhere. This is
from Worship and Service hymnal.
I heard the bells on Christmas Day
Their old familiar carols play,
And wild and sweet
Their words repeat
Of peace on earth, good will to men!
I thought how, as the day had come,
The belfries of all Christendom
Had rolled along th'unbroken song
Of peace on earth, good will to men
And in despair, I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said,
"For hate is strong, and mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good will to men."
Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
God is not dead, not doth he sleep!
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good will to men.
Till, ringing, singing on its way,
The world revolved from night to day,
A voice, a chime, a chant sublime,
Of peace on earth, good will to men.
Susan, I see verse 3 as the pivotal one in the hymn. I think of that
contrast when I think of it. It's kind of a "things are terrible but right
triumphs in the end" kinda song.
I'm stretching here but Mr. Dark might be playing on the despair part or
as others have said, the melancholy.
Most of all, though, I see this as a preview of what's to come--the fight
between good and evil that's going to happen later in the book.
I think Katie said it well.
Dottie,
When I read:
"-- Something Wicked is growing on me -- I just had to let it percolate
longer"--
I just laughed. I knew what you meant but it sounded like you were going
over to the dark side. :)
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (92 of 106), Read 32
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 06:59 PM
Sheesh, it does kinda read that way, doesn't it, Bo? LOL!
Dottie -- getting a new perspective on Something Wicked as she slogs
through the last miles in the Paris sewers with Jean Valjean in Les Mis
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (93 of 106), Read 35
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dick Haggart (law@haggart.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 12:09 AM
An interesting interview with Ray Bradbury in this week's New York Times
Magazine:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/magazine/home/20001105mag-qa-bradbury.html
Dick, The Friendly Lawyer
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (94 of 106), Read 32
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 11:39 AM
What a riot! And his photo!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (95 of 106), Read 31
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 12:16 PM
BTW, remember the fellow who came on touting DW, the musical? We
have tickets for it in a couple of weeks. It'll be interesting. I'm not
generally much for musicals, but friends have season tickets to that
theater and enticed us into going with.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (96 of 106), Read 30
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 04:54 PM
We will be waiting for your review, Ruth, I would think it would lend itself
to the musical format but then again there are other things about the
book which I'd feel belonged to an straightforward presentation.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (97 of 106), Read 27
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 06:41 PM
pres,
I knew other people didn't consider Bradbury to be a SF writer, I didn't
know that he didn't consider himself to be one either. With that said, I
thought that the interviewer was pretty inept bringing it up
CONSISTENTLY in the interview! Obviously a pre-planned interview with
no versatility.
I was just reading an article in Locus that mentioned that Bradbury was a
technophobe. The interview reinforced that.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (98 of 106), Read 19
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 10:30 AM
Interesting discussion on the song! :-) I think I'm finally beginning to get
a handle on it. Bradbury didn't make it easy for us by eliminating the 3rd
verse, which really evokes exactly what Halloway is feeling (that passage
about the downtrodden sinners and innocents on the streets). OTOH, if
he had put in the 3rd verse the whole passage might have seemed too
heavy-handed.
Halloway is world-weary and wise; he would gladly give up all that he
knows of the world to return to the innocence of youth. He can't go
back; he knows all about sin, guilt, death and sorrow and he cannot
"unknow it". I think part of his sadness throughout the book is that he
realizes in his longing for lost youth and lost innocence that if he could,
go back and be unknowing of the hard heavy weight of life, unknowing of
the bad things, that it would not solve his problem: evil would still be out
there. Being unaware of it does not diminish it. Unlike his fellow
townsmen, he has thought this through deeper and he knows that going
back to the blissful state of youth is a hollow victory; it's amnesia,
cowardice, avoidance of unpleasant realities. The carousel is a superficial
solution.
I think he longs for youth and the innocence of youth and that his
sadness and disquiet is not onlybecause he cannot have it, but because
he knows that it is an illusion. We can't return to Eden. The genie is out
of the bottle, Pandora out of the box...the world of sin and death
exists...children just aren't aware of it. What he really wants is for the
world to be a different, better place; he is longing for heaven where
there is no sickness or death. Childhood may be idyllic, but it is not
divine. :-)
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and comfort
a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (99 of 106), Read 22
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@earthlink.net)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 12:31 PM
Great note, Susan.
Sherry
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (100 of 106), Read
20 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 03:12 PM
Susan: Amen. Beautifully put.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (101 of 106), Read
24 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 03:36 PM
Susan,
>Interesting discussion on the song! :-) I think I'm finally beginning to
get a handle on it. Bradbury didn't make it easy for us by eliminating the
3rd verse, which
I'm wondering if because this was written in 1962 when churchgoing was
a bit more popular if he just assumed that his audience would be familiar
with the song and its nuances.
>passage about the downtrodden sinners and innocents on the streets).
OTOH, if he had put in the 3rd verse the whole passage might have
seemed too heavy-handed.
True. I honestly didn't realize that he didn't put the whole thing in there
until you quoted it. I remembered that contrast.
>>Halloway is world-weary and wise; he would gladly give up all that he
knows of the world to return to the innocence of youth.
Your note is a real good summary of the book. I thought particularly of
the time when he's sitting in the library reading over the old newspaper
clippings and REALIZING what's happening and what he and the town are
up against.
>Childhood may be idyllic, but it is not divine. :-)
And it certainly wasn't that way for the two kids in the book. They were
up against it as much as he was. He just had more at his disposal to help
combat the evil at hand.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (102 of 106), Read
21 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 03:53 PM
This may seem out of it or obvious but doesn't this book seem to be a
huge influence on Stephen King?
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (103 of 106), Read
24 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 04:39 PM
Candy -- I kept thinking IT as I read this one but I don't read King and
cringe at the scenes from the movie which I still see when I think of it.
Long story -- not worth repeating -- but I won't watch it again or read
the book just to compare it to Bradbury! Had enough trouble with
Something Wicked!
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (104 of 106), Read
25 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Katie Kleczka (pkleczka@uwm.edu)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 05:26 PM
Just as a side note, King listed Something Wicked This Way Comes as
one of the top 10 scariest books he had ever read. I would say Bradbury
is definitely one of his influences because of that and other similarities to
Bradbury's short story style.
Katie
"Everything in moderation, EXCEPT for reading."
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (105 of 106), Read
27 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 06:13 PM
Okay, I wondered about that...there is something there. I think SWTWCs
is one of the scariest books I've ever read too. I live alone and can't read
Stephen King because I get SO scared.(I've read two of his books and
that was so scary) But I think he may have said something about
Bradbury in his On Writing(which is very good and entertaining ) but I
didn't add it up since I read it a month or so ago...thanks...
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (106 of 106), Read
24 times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Pres Lancaster (plancast@slip.net)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 05:04 PM
The Ray Bradbury interview is great fun. He certainly has his head
screwed on and his feet on the ground. Makes you wonder if the best
fantasy writers are more in this world than out of it.
FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (1 of 52), Read 44
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Pres Lancaster (plancast@neteze.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 05:04 PM
The Ray Bradbury interview is great fun. He certainly has his head
screwed on and his feet on the ground. Makes you wonder if the best
fantasy writers are more in this world than out of it.
FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (2 of 52), Read 33
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Thursday, November 09, 2000 11:25 PM
I had to put this down for a bit, but am just about at the last few pages.
Then just now as I was looking at my notes I flipped to the front and
re-read the quotes. I love that feeling, I always find that I forget what
they were in novels that have a quote at the beginning and what a treat
almost done to look back on them. (btw, the book I have here is from
1979Bantam sci-fi edition)
One brought tears...man is in love, and love is what vanishes Yeats. and
the other...by Stubb in Moby Dick I know not all that may be coming, but
be it what it will, I'll go laughing.
(and the Proverbs is just so powerful and scary)
Sherry about your post and the feeling of loss of youth. It's so sad
because what I think the dad knows is somehow we don't have to lose
the feelings of youth and joy but it gets left behind, it fades and the
world lets us and then the dark feeds on the ones who don't have that
youth/joy/love and happiness.
we can so often only see it in kids.
this goes back to the quote/wisdom of approaching life laughing because
laughter is an armour! it wards off the vampires of the world the blood
suckers that bring empty crap to weigh us down if we let go the laugh...
some bits I found primal...Mr.Dark wants the boys names. It hints at the
idea that and it's an old idea, if you know someones name you know the
whole them. That you may have power over them can control them. The
boys and the dad seem to know this or feel this. The dad does not give
the boys whole names.(I think in the sewer scene) There is gum that
goes down the grate of sewer and th kid tries to get it who dropped
it...Later this line describes the boys hiding as gummed up against the
wall...then hugging each other in the "gum-wrapper,tobacco littered pit"
Just say that out loud, it sounds so wonderful. I think the first post here
or so said how this book sounds so good read out loud. It's delicious out
loud.
This circus reminds me a little of strange surgically altered characters in
William Gibson and the genetically and drug altered characters in Geek
Love by Katherine Dunn.
Only the meanings of each are so polar so reversed...
there is some kind of mixture between strength and weakness in the
circus and freak show world...
a few more pages to go...
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (3 of 52), Read 121
times
Conf:
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From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 02:17 PM
Kay,
I hope you won't judge all fantastic lit by this book. If I had to
pidgeonhole it, I'd called it gothic horror which is very atmospheric.
Bradbury does this very well.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (4 of 52), Read 124
times
Conf:
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 02:36 PM
Bo -- Don't know about Kay but I said elsewhere that this one is sitting
in the back corners of the gray matter (like a lump of food sits in your
tummy only this is giving me a tummyache in my brain) and I have
decided not to say any more till I've thought about it some more -- I
WILL say that the characters are what saved it for me, otherwise I might
have tossed it -- have only read Dandelion Wine and this one.
I really think that once I let it simmer, I may be okay with more of it than
I feel I am right now -- and maybe I rushed it too much -- only a couple
of days -- I should have slowed down and taken things in slower perhaps
as I knew I have difficulty with this kind of tale.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (5 of 52), Read 126
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 02:40 PM
The way I took that wonderful "3am" passage quoted in one of the
messages above was not that there really is a specific difference
between men and women in this respect. Plenty of women feel mortal
and desolate at 3 am. The way I took the passage is that it articulated
how he felt, that making this distinction was just emphasizing his sense
of being totally alone in the universe, alone with his misgivings, his life
and his fears. We all have moments in which we feel like no one could
possibly understand what we are going through.
I think for him it was sort of a "dark night of the soul" thing which if I
remember correctly is a state spiritual aridity and seeming isolation which
precedes a time of peace, light and communion with God.
It's always darkest before the dawn. :-)
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and comfort
a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (6 of 52), Read 129
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 02:52 PM
Susan -- I like your take on this -- yes, I guess I was trying to
generalize the whole thing a bit.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (7 of 52), Read 127
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 07:13 PM
Dottie,
I like the book a lot more now that I'm done with it. :)
This is a rare thing with me but sometimes I don't actually enjoy reading
a book but find that it sorta mellows with age. I am glad I read it. I think
the overall effect is quite powerful.
Today is a perfect day here to be reading it---most of the leaves are off
the trees, a storm is blowing in, the air has that October chill and we
know that soon it's going to be dark very early!
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (8 of 52), Read 129
times
Conf:
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 07:26 PM
Bo -- Part of my problem here is that I realize now I didn't put aside my
strong personal feelings concerning matters which are key to the entire
story of SWTWC -- Halloween and carnivals. I'm not big on either of
these -- even as a child -- I went trick or treating in our little town but
it was greed -- I just wanted that candy and all the other cool stuff to
eat (which in those days was not contaminated and/or tossed in case of
such). Maybe not even that -- cause half the time my mother says she'd
find my candy in some toy or other container in the toychest all gone to
yuck after a month or so. I don't know.
As I say -- maybe I let my own thinking get in the way of this. SO letting
it percolate a while may help.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (9 of 52), Read 127
times
Conf:
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From:
Mary Anne Papale (mapreads@aol.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 10:25 PM
I have this "thing" about wondering why and how authors choose the
titles of their works. In this case, Bradbury gives the Shakespeare quote,
which includes the title, in Chapter 37. To take this a few steps further,
it is from Act IV, Scene 1 of Macbeth, generally considered the most
terrifying of all of Shakespeare's plays. The comment is made by one of
the witches just prior to Macbeth's entry. But so much evil has already
occurred that the audience is generally ready to cry for mercy.
In this book, the passage is remembered by Charles Halloway, as he is
preparing for his encounter in the library with the Dust Witch and Mr.
Dark. In this context, it seems like the only thing to consider. "So vague,
yet so immense."
On another note, I loved Chapter 31: "Nothing much else happened, all
the rest of that night."
Metaphors be with you... MAP
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (10 of 52), Read 130
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Thursday, October 26, 2000 11:34 PM
I have really enjoyed reading all the comments here. It is difficult for me
to be rational about this book as it was a HUGE story for me when I was
young. I picked it up today, and just got so into the boys and their
world. How he describes boys running!!!
I remember running like that with my sister and our friends...ahhh...in this
book I feel the wind as a kid I feel ideas as a I did when I was a kid. I
can see how it might not have aged well, I wonder if kids even read it
now(although I think kids who like Harry Potter might like this? but I
hardly begin to know what 10 and 11 year olds read anymore, do they
read ha ha)and I think this is about the age I would recommend to read
this book. Yeah, about 10 or 11. I also have found parts of it tricky and
uncomfortable to read...but I remember when I was young reading this
and my feeling was all these associations and images blending into one
another. I do feel very afraid when I am reading this...even all these
years later I still feel so afraid in this book. There have been parts where
I smiled because of the memory of how I felt reading certain ideas and
descriptions I think there are some very cool bits in here.
Like:"Lightning unraveled itself over the sweated outflung boys, delivered
flame to the silent horse stampede to light their way around, around with
the figure lying on the platform no longer a boy no longer a man but more
than a man and even more and even more, much more than that, around,
around."
I don't know, it's weird yes and maybe too heavy handed, but something
about it really cranks up my imagination, it's almost primal some of the
ways he has written little passages in this. Somehow hitting a part of my
mind. I don't know, just gets me in a weird way.
Um I agree Bo, this would not be science fiction, but gothic horror. It's
like 60's version of H.P. Lovecraft.
I love that part that you pulled out Dottie. I see as so insightful. By the
way, I sleep only four hours a night. I wake up every day between 3;15
and 3;30. I absolutely love that time of the day. Everything is quiet and I
find my cup of tea and I check my e mail or read for a couple of hours
watch the sun rise, then I write for a couple of hours. When the rest of
the world wakes up or gets to work I am already been busy for a few
hours in my imagination...
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (11 of 52), Read 131
times
Conf:
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From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Friday, October 27, 2000 01:54 AM
MAP -- Candy -- you are getting me started on this "lump" and it looks
as though it will wind up right up there with Dandelion Wine. You helped
remind me of all the descriptive and humorous stretches in this -- and
yes, there is an innocence to the running --as in my own past. Lots to
think of -- my own reaction is I think from stretching what I am reading
and notes such as these are why it helps me to stretch my reading
boundaries here on CR in some instances at least.
Dottie -- mulling this one over and thinking perhaps MacBeth is a good
next step
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (12 of 52), Read 126
times
Conf:
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From:
Diane Freeman (dfreeman@jeffco.k12.co.us)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 12:52 AM
Much as I enjoyed this book and found the tension near terrifying, I was
bothered by Bradbury's dismissive if not downright misogynistic
tendencies toward women. The 3 a.m. quote was one of the places
where I felt this. Women do not figure in his other works that I have
read, except perhaps Montag's wife in Fahrenheit 451 and that is
certainly very unflattering.
Diane
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (13 of 52), Read 128
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 03:30 AM
Diane -- having read only SWTWC and Dandelion Wine I'm not sure I can
answer this -- oh, and F451 years and years ago so even your possible
good example escapes memory. I don't recall feeling this way in DW and
even my quibble with the three AM thing here in this discussion was the
only place I felt this tilted view came through in SWTWC. I will look for
this when rereading or reading new (to me) Bradbury in the future
though.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (14 of 52), Read 132
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 05:46 AM
Well, here it is the 'wolf hour'...that is on the west coast...
again, this is the time I feel the exact opposite of the descriptions
regarding this time period in SWTWC. It feels all mellow and cosy and
ready for the sun to come up...
Interesting comments Diane, but somehow I thought that section was
more critical of men's anxieties than women being able to sleep through
the night without panic attacks.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (15 of 52), Read 135
times
Conf:
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From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 10:25 AM
I get the 3 am jangles in spades. Absolute worst time to be awake. I'm
alone in the world and nobody even cares about all my troubles, which at
that time of night are all waiting with bared fangs to gobble me up.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (16 of 52), Read 132
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Pres Lancaster (plancast@neteze.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 11:24 AM
Yeah. I noticed you had all those tooth marks on your arms and legs. {G}
FRUMIOUS BANDERSNATCH
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (17 of 52), Read 135
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 01:39 PM
When I was a teenager my mother gave me one of 'those lectures' which
pretty said that anyone out or up until 3 am was a tramp. I've always
been a night owl and I'm sure this has disappointed her. :)
3 am, or actually late night in general has always been a comforting time
for me. I seldom feel lonely but if I do it's more likely to hit me during
daylight hours than in the middle of the night.
A number of years ago I had some health problems and I had a hard time
keeping to a 24 hour sleep schedule. I slept when I could and it ended up
being 26-28 hours a night.
This means that for about a year I slept "around the clock". It was really
an interesting sociological experience because I could experience ALL the
different parts of the day from different perspectives. I could get to
places when they opened first thing in the morning (not something I
normally experience) or go grocery shopping at 3 am.
Every part of the day has its own charm when you see it that way.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (18 of 52), Read 129
times
Conf:
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From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Saturday, October 28, 2000 11:31 PM
Its true evey part of the day has it's charms, thats probably why I liketo
stay awake for most of a day. I hate to miss anything.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (19 of 52), Read 129
times
Conf:
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From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 29, 2000 01:46 AM
Picked up a few tidbits about Bradbury in this new book, About the
Author (see posting in CR).
Did someone already post his webpage?
http://www.brookingbook.com/bradbury
And, Dale, you might want to try Bradbury Himself Reads 19 Complete
Stories.
http://www.audiopartners.com
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (20 of 52), Read 125
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Diane Freeman (dfreeman@jeffco.k12.co.us)
Date:
Sunday, October 29, 2000 12:01 PM
Ooops, there's a little typo in the link to the Ray Bradbury page (needs
an s in the middle). I think this one will work
http://www.brookingsbook.com/bradbury/
Diane
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (21 of 52), Read 126
times
Conf:
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From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 29, 2000 01:31 PM
Thanks, Diane.
My typing is exceptionally bad today. I'm glad for the spellchecker.
As I just mentioned to you over in CR there's a ton of Bradbury info on
the Bookwebsites.com site. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to
do the URL.
Go through the menus:
author>genre>scifi>B>Bradbury
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (22 of 52), Read 129
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Jane Niemeier (jniemeie@hotmail.com)
Date:
Sunday, October 29, 2000 08:33 PM
I agree with Diane about Bradbury's portraits of women in this book,
especially the portraits of the mothers. They might as well not be there.
They are mentioned only a couple of times, and Jim's mother is in the
book once. They are cardboard characters. The only interesting woman
is the witch and she is filled with sawdust.
Jane
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (23 of 52), Read 61
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Katie Kleczka (pkleczka@uwm.edu)
Date:
Monday, October 30, 2000 05:44 PM
Jane et al:
About the treatment of women in SWTWC, I've often thought that a
clear focus on women and relationships with women/mothers is mostly
irrelevant to the kind of story that Bradbury is telling. In my experience
of the narrative, our main concern is with boys and the relationships (or
absence thereof) between them and their fathers/father figures (like it or
not, our venerable and evil carnival bigwig has a paternal influence...at
least for Jim). I guess the question I'm now asking myself is "what
advantage would there be to focusing more on the female characters?"
Just a thought.
Katie
"Everything in moderation, EXCEPT for reading."
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (24 of 52), Read 65
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Monday, October 30, 2000 05:54 PM
I think I'm in agreement with Katie. The only thing that rubbed me a little
wrong was that bit about women being so different from men and having
some big dark biological secret.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (25 of 52), Read 63
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, October 31, 2000 01:28 AM
Ruth -- THAT part about the biological secret and all that was what
made me not worry about the lack of more on the mothers -- I felt he
was saying mothers/women had these connections more built in and did a
better job of connecting whether or not they were mothers. It was the
#AM thing that bothered me and now I think it may have bothered me for
the very reason that it MISreads these female "secret" and connections
thing which he seemed to do so well with elsewhere.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (26 of 52), Read 64
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Tuesday, October 31, 2000 09:06 AM
Dottie, I agree with Kay that women were not part of the story, and that
they needn't have been part of the story. It was about fathers and sons.
But I was bothered by the "female secrets" thing because I thought it
was not insightful, but merely bought into cliche.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (27 of 52), Read 61
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Thursday, November 02, 2000 12:34 PM
I don't understand why everyone seems to be so fixated on the whole
male female thing. It really has no bearing on the story whatsoever. This
is a "boys' story", a coming of age story, the story of a father and a son,
(and a story of best friends). It's perfectly legitimate for people to write
about male relationships, for goodness sake. I really think you all are
making a mountain out of a molehill by obsessing about an off-the-cuff
remark on the difference between men and women.
More interesting to me is the symbolism in this story and the underlying
significance of certain moments. For instance, I've never been able to
understand the significance of Mr. Dark singing "I heard the Bells on
Christmas Day" while he puts up posters for the carnival. And what about
that moment early on when Will's father when they are talking about
alcohol being the elixir Of Life and Will's father says, 'I don't need it, but
someone inside me does.'...So he drank, eyes shut, listening to hear if
that thing inside turned over again, rustling inside the deep bons that
were stacked for burning but never burned." That always made me
wonder if there was a wild kid like *Jim* inside Mr. Halloway. Did the
passage refer to his lost youth, or did it referred to a long suppressed
yearning to run wild and do dangerous things (like Jim).
Then there are the questions raised about the lightening rod salesman. I
have always thought of him as a prophet. But why did he fall to the lure
of the carnival? Surely he knew? Maybe he was a prophet of only vague
vision. He could see the storms, smell the coming evil in the air, he could
tell who was ripe for being struck, but he did not know his own heart; he
was not introspective and did not realize that he was ripe for plucking or
that the storm that he feared and that he always stayed ahead of would
not look like a storm, but would look like beauty if he lingered long
enough to see it. A man of gifts, but limited gifts and the
short-sightedness of his vision was his doom.
There are many interesting moments in this book, fascinating glimpses
into human nature and questions the author leaves with us rather than
answering. This is a meaty book. I've been sort of disappointed that the
discussion hasn't really sunk it's teeth into the meat, but instead picks at
peripheral things.
I'd love for someone to come up with a good explanation of the "I Heard
The Bells on Christmas Day" moment. That has puzzled me for years! :-)
It seems significant, but a such a weird choice for Mr. Dark to sing that
I've never been able to fathom what's behind it.
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and comfort
a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (28 of 52), Read 67
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Thursday, November 02, 2000 01:12 PM
Susan,
>>I heard the Bells on Christmas Day" while he puts up posters for the
carnival.
Someone mentioned the religious allusions in the book. I guess I saw this
as a 'good vs. evil' thing with evil *thinking* it was winning. (Mr. Dark
making fun of a religious type thing.)
>>And what about that moment early on when Will's father when they
are talking about alcohol being the elixir Of Life and Will's father says, 'I
don't need it, but someone inside me does.'...So he drank, eyes shut,
listening to hear if that thing inside turned over again, rustling inside the
deep bons that were stacked for burning but never burned." That always
made me wonder if there was a wild kid like *Jim* inside Mr. Halloway.
Did the passage refer to his lost youth, or did it referred to a long
suppressed yearning to run wild and do dangerous things (like Jim).
I saw it as the latter. I think that near the end there are a number of
places where Mr. Halloway and the others are *pulled* towards evil. The
part I liked best was when they were all tempted to go on the
carosel--each seeing what it might do for them. I see the passage you
quoted as a lead-up to that passage. Showing how everyone is
vulnerable to evil--even in this case, the 'hero' of the story.
>>Then there are the questions raised about the lightening rod salesman.
I have always thought of him as a prophet. But why did he fall to the lure
of the carnival?
I saw it as him not being as strong as Mr. Halloway---giving in to that
temptation. It WAS strong, afterall.
>>This is a meaty book. I've been sort of disappointed that the
discussion hasn't really sunk it's teeth into the meat, but instead picks at
peripheral things.
Keep bringing them up. I'll try. ;)
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (29 of 52), Read 59
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Friday, November 03, 2000 02:42 PM
Susan -- it was YOUR turn to bring the "main dish" to the discussion
obviously {G} -- I think I set off all that man and woman stuff and
though I did have the reaction to it that I've outlined -- sorry if it drew
the talk off on a tangent.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (30 of 52), Read 65
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Edd Houghton (eddh@pacbell.net)
Date:
Friday, November 03, 2000 07:45 PM
Well, I think it's a great American novel. Maybe not the greatest, but
right up there. While some may think of the writing as "flowery", I am
enthralled with the way the words sound, how they react in the few gray
cells remaining between my ears, and mostly for the reaction in the pit of
my stomach.
The dust witch, for instance, has a special way of speaking:
"Tell you your husbands. Tell you your wives. Tell you your
fortunes. Tell you your lives. See me. I know. See me at the show.
Tell you the color of his eyes. Tell you the color of her lies. Tell you
the color of his goal. Tell you the color of her soul. Come now, don't
go. See me, see me at the show."
And why didn't Mr Bradbury choose to print the dust witch's lines in
poetic form. He could have. The words are the same, but do they have
more impact if the rhythm is hidden from the eye, and only enters the
consciousness indirectly. Sort of a stealth poetry. The same words:
"Tell you your husbands.
Tell you your wives.
Tell you your fortunes.
Tell you your lives.
See me. I know.
See me at the show.
Tell you the color of his eyes.
Tell you the color of her lies.
Tell you the color of his goal.
Tell you the color of her soul.
Come now, don't go.
See me at the show.
EDD
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (31 of 52), Read 69
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@earthlink.net)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 06:39 AM
I love your idea of "stealth poetry", Edd.
Sherry trying not to post too much because I'm tying up my mother's
phone line.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (32 of 52), Read 71
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 08:01 AM
Bo,
Sorry but I can't buy your "I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day"
explanation. :-) There's nothing in the text to indicate that Dr. Dark was
mocking Christianity. He wasn't even singing the lyrics; he was whistling.
The focus of the moment seems to be Halloway's reaction to hearing the
song. Given the lyrics printed between paragraphs I think we are
supposed to think he is sort of hearing the lyrics in his head along with
the whistling. But I don't really understand his reaction to hearing the
song.
It was a tune from another season, one that never ceased making
Charles Halloway sad when he heard it. The song was incongruous
for October, but immensely moving, overwhelming, no matter what
day or what month it was sung:
I heard the bells on Chirstmas Day
Their old familiar carols play,
And wild and sweet
Their words repeat
Of peace on earth, good will to men!
Charles Halloway shivered. Suddenly there was the old sense of
terrified elation, of wanting to laugh and cry together when he saw
the innocents of the earth wandering the snowy streets the day
before Christmas among all the tired men and women whose faces
were dirty with guilt, unwashed of sin and smashed like small
windows by life that hit without warning. Ran, hid, came back and
hit again.
Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
God is not dead, not doth he sleep!
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good will to men.
I don't understand why it always makes him sad, why it makes him think
of people beaten down by sin and life. (Are the innocents he refers to
Will and Jim?)
If we assume some sort of omniscience on the part of Mr. Dark we might
assume that he chose that song because it would make Charles Halloway
feel melancholy, but while that answered the immediate question of why
Dark would chose such an uplifting (and prophetic!) religious song, it
evades the question of why Halloway feels that way about an uplifting
song.
I still find the passage strange...and I have a hard time visualizing Mr.
Dark humming a Christmas carol that in effect says that he cannot
succeed in his quest to get souls.
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and comfort
a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (33 of 52), Read 71
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Katie Kleczka (pkleczka@uwm.edu)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 08:50 AM
Susan wrote:
"If we assume some sort of omniscience on the part of Mr. Dark we
might
assume that he chose that song because it would make Charles
Halloway
feel melancholy, but while that answered the immediate question of why
Dark would chose such an uplifting (and prophetic!) religious song, it
evades the question of why Halloway feels that way about an uplifting
song.
I still find the passage strange...and I have a hard time visualizing Mr.
Dark humming a Christmas carol that in effect says that he cannot
succeed in his quest to get souls."
Susan,
A couple of thoughts came to mind when I read your post. First, I don't
personally find it odd that Halloway would feel saddened by the uplifting
Christmas song. There is a part of of Christmas that always makes me
feel sad, a lonely quality that especially the brightest, happiest songs
and lyrics can underscore.
But Halloway is dealing with so much more. Yearning for youth, yet
possessing the vast wisdom of age...and experience (we are encouraged
to believe that he knows Dark quite well), I think Halloway also possesses
an omniscient quality which leaves him with an acute understanding of
man's dark side. Think about it this way perhaps: Halloway is being
portrayed as Dark's nemesis and this relationship is representative of the
good we find juxtaposed against the bad (Halloway=Hallowed Way? Why
not?) :) So, Halloway's wisdom, experience, and knowledge of man's inner
demons (he has an intimate association with this aspect judging from his
own inner life!), adversely affects his experience of the whistled carol.
Another idea. The tune is like a mask for Dark in the vein of a wolf in
sheep's clothing. He evokes images of gifts and happy times with that
tune in potential "customers," but Halloway can see through that mask
and hence his reaction.
Dark's use of the tune? Well, in addition to it masking his baser nature, I
think he is flaunting his arrogance and perceived power by singing a
religious song. After all, the devil is often portrayed as an "in God's face"
kind of entity (you hold up the cross as your shield and the devil laughs
mockingly; that sort of thing). And so in this instance, he isn't saying
that he cannot succeed in taking souls. Rather, he is taunting God and
trivializing His power to protect you.
A bit rambling, but understandable, I hope.
:)
Katie
"Everything in moderation, EXCEPT for reading."
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (34 of 52), Read 72
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:06 AM
I think it is very much about Halloway in wolf's clothing. And his name
definitely references Hallowed Way. He is like a fallen angel who knows
both sides of evil and good.
He plays people.
I can not listen to many Xmas songs without getting weepy(this also
goes for Springsteen songs these days too! all sentimental to me now)
and with a mixture of emotions. I also cry at those hokey 'phone home'
commercials too yike.
I thought innocents were all the children on the streets. How when we
get to be tired men and women from when once we ran through the
snow and rain as kids/innocents playing and silly.
Halloways grasp on people is he gets them when they are tired too,
without joy we are weak as grownups.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (35 of 52), Read 78
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 12:18 PM
Whew -- I had no difficulty at all with the sad reaction to this Christmas
song -- this is one of my own very favorites and I often play it louder
and more frequently if I am having a particularly blue season of holidays
-- because it makes me weep even in a high and happy holiday season
so why not just let it wash things well away in a depressed one?
And that last verse -- the one where God is not dead nor does He sleep
-- beats into one over and over and eventually the mood lifts.
There are others -- can't pinpoint specifics -- but melancholy at the
state of humanity when Christmas is before us -- it can get bleak -- why
else is it suicide season?
EDD -- Something Wicked is growing on me -- I just had to let it
percolate longer -- should have SIPPED it rather than gulped it. It is
gaining on Dandelion Wine -- and will wind up just a bit behind as I am
sure that will forever be my favorite -- and not because it was the first
of the Bradbury I read.
Dottie -- who is thinking about revisiting this one sooner than later
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (36 of 52), Read 79
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 12:35 PM
Dottie, you just put your finger on one of the big charms of this place.
While reading everyone's comments, you find that books which you may
have originally dismissed, in fact growing on you.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (37 of 52), Read 81
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 01:13 PM
Ruth -- This fantasy or whatever stuff is always hard for me and -- in
truth I have read little of it but always wind up having it work through
and sit okay -- but this one I went into with a bad case of -- I'm reading
this and the faster the better and I am probably not going to like it much
so just see what happens. I gulped it down and DARED Bradbury to make
me like it -- because even the tiny bit of not really within the realm of
reality that sat in Dandelion Wine almost threw me and you may recall
how entirely enthralled I really was with that one.
ANYWAY -- I knew I hadn't given this a fair reading -- hadn't gone into it
at all fairmindedly to start with -- and so have been thinking as I read
the thread and giving myself time to take in what I SHOULD have done
for myself as I read slowly.
That's what CR is for as you say!
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (38 of 52), Read 70
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 06:29 PM
Susan,
>>Sorry but I can't buy your "I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day"
explanation. :-)
Good, discussion! :)
I had a bear of a time finding this quote. I thought it was near the end of
the book. It's actually near the beginning of the book where we get the
'set up' for Charles Halloway. The part right before the section you
quoted, I think sets it up somewhat--
"the gray hairs on the back of his hand, like antennae, had felt something
beyond slide by in the October night."
(This is the beginning of chapter 5) and the 'icy' feel he has represents
the darkness that Mr. Dark is bringing. I think this is a good
foreshadowing of things to come. Christmas here may well be a sign of
that iciness. Each of the seasons tend to have signficance for Bradbury
and I'm sure this was no accident. Those first few paragraphs of that
chapter really are GRIM--end of the world type grim.
>>There's nothing in the text to indicate that Dr. Dark was mocking
Christianity. He wasn't even singing the lyrics;
I guess I was thinking about later near the end of the book where he
takes the Bible and reads from it to 'show' that it has no effect on him in
talisman-type fashion.
>> But I don't really understand his reaction to hearing the song.
Right before the second refrain he sees innocents and guilty all hit with
the horrible things of life and then hit again. Bradbury uses the phrase
"terrified elation". I think this describes the conflict between hope in God
and fear of being squashed by evil that's going on inside and around
Halloway at this point.
>>incongruous for October, but immensely moving, overwhelming, no
matter what day or what month it was sung:
And later if you read past the second refrain---Charles is 'flushed with
summer heat'.
>>I don't understand why it always makes him sad, why it makes him
think of people beaten down by sin and life. (Are the innocents he refers
to Will and Jim?)
I see the song as a song of plaintiveness to God about how terrible
conditions are and then reaffirmation of faith that God isn't going to let
him rot as he fears.
Bradbury only used the first & third verses. I'll see if I can type this out
(my typing isn't the best). Maybe it'll make more sense if you get the
whole song. (Apologies to those not interested in this.) This is written by
Longfellow, btw, and maybe there's a longer version somewhere. This is
from Worship and Service hymnal.
I heard the bells on Christmas Day
Their old familiar carols play,
And wild and sweet
Their words repeat
Of peace on earth, good will to men!
I thought how, as the day had come,
The belfries of all Christendom
Had rolled along th'unbroken song
Of peace on earth, good will to men
And in despair, I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said,
"For hate is strong, and mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good will to men."
Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
God is not dead, not doth he sleep!
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good will to men.
Till, ringing, singing on its way,
The world revolved from night to day,
A voice, a chime, a chant sublime,
Of peace on earth, good will to men.
Susan, I see verse 3 as the pivotal one in the hymn. I think of that
contrast when I think of it. It's kind of a "things are terrible but right
triumphs in the end" kinda song.
I'm stretching here but Mr. Dark might be playing on the despair part or
as others have said, the melancholy.
Most of all, though, I see this as a preview of what's to come--the fight
between good and evil that's going to happen later in the book.
I think Katie said it well.
Dottie,
When I read:
"-- Something Wicked is growing on me -- I just had to let it percolate
longer"--
I just laughed. I knew what you meant but it sounded like you were going
over to the dark side. :)
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (39 of 52), Read 72
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Saturday, November 04, 2000 06:59 PM
Sheesh, it does kinda read that way, doesn't it, Bo? LOL!
Dottie -- getting a new perspective on Something Wicked as she slogs
through the last miles in the Paris sewers with Jean Valjean in Les Mis
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (40 of 52), Read 75
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dick Haggart (law@haggart.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 12:09 AM
An interesting interview with Ray Bradbury in this week's New York Times
Magazine:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/magazine/home/20001105mag-qa-bradbury.html
Dick, The Friendly Lawyer
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (41 of 52), Read 72
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 11:39 AM
What a riot! And his photo!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (42 of 52), Read 71
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 12:16 PM
BTW, remember the fellow who came on touting DW, the musical? We
have tickets for it in a couple of weeks. It'll be interesting. I'm not
generally much for musicals, but friends have season tickets to that
theater and enticed us into going with.
Ruth
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (43 of 52), Read 70
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 04:54 PM
We will be waiting for your review, Ruth, I would think it would lend itself
to the musical format but then again there are other things about the
book which I'd feel belonged to an straightforward presentation.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (44 of 52), Read 68
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 06:41 PM
pres,
I knew other people didn't consider Bradbury to be a SF writer, I didn't
know that he didn't consider himself to be one either. With that said, I
thought that the interviewer was pretty inept bringing it up
CONSISTENTLY in the interview! Obviously a pre-planned interview with
no versatility.
I was just reading an article in Locus that mentioned that Bradbury was a
technophobe. The interview reinforced that.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (45 of 52), Read 62
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Susan Strahan (tales@1001knights.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 10:30 AM
Interesting discussion on the song! :-) I think I'm finally beginning to get
a handle on it. Bradbury didn't make it easy for us by eliminating the 3rd
verse, which really evokes exactly what Halloway is feeling (that passage
about the downtrodden sinners and innocents on the streets). OTOH, if
he had put in the 3rd verse the whole passage might have seemed too
heavy-handed.
Halloway is world-weary and wise; he would gladly give up all that he
knows of the world to return to the innocence of youth. He can't go
back; he knows all about sin, guilt, death and sorrow and he cannot
"unknow it". I think part of his sadness throughout the book is that he
realizes in his longing for lost youth and lost innocence that if he could,
go back and be unknowing of the hard heavy weight of life, unknowing of
the bad things, that it would not solve his problem: evil would still be out
there. Being unaware of it does not diminish it. Unlike his fellow
townsmen, he has thought this through deeper and he knows that going
back to the blissful state of youth is a hollow victory; it's amnesia,
cowardice, avoidance of unpleasant realities. The carousel is a superficial
solution.
I think he longs for youth and the innocence of youth and that his
sadness and disquiet is not onlybecause he cannot have it, but because
he knows that it is an illusion. We can't return to Eden. The genie is out
of the bottle, Pandora out of the box...the world of sin and death
exists...children just aren't aware of it. What he really wants is for the
world to be a different, better place; he is longing for heaven where
there is no sickness or death. Childhood may be idyllic, but it is not
divine. :-)
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would help and comfort
a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?" ---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (46 of 52), Read 66
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@earthlink.net)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 12:31 PM
Great note, Susan.
Sherry
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (47 of 52), Read 65
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dale Short (dshort5005@aol.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 03:12 PM
Susan: Amen. Beautifully put.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (48 of 52), Read 70
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 03:36 PM
Susan,
>Interesting discussion on the song! :-) I think I'm finally beginning to
get a handle on it. Bradbury didn't make it easy for us by eliminating the
3rd verse, which
I'm wondering if because this was written in 1962 when churchgoing was
a bit more popular if he just assumed that his audience would be familiar
with the song and its nuances.
>passage about the downtrodden sinners and innocents on the streets).
OTOH, if he had put in the 3rd verse the whole passage might have
seemed too heavy-handed.
True. I honestly didn't realize that he didn't put the whole thing in there
until you quoted it. I remembered that contrast.
>>Halloway is world-weary and wise; he would gladly give up all that he
knows of the world to return to the innocence of youth.
Your note is a real good summary of the book. I thought particularly of
the time when he's sitting in the library reading over the old newspaper
clippings and REALIZING what's happening and what he and the town are
up against.
>Childhood may be idyllic, but it is not divine. :-)
And it certainly wasn't that way for the two kids in the book. They were
up against it as much as he was. He just had more at his disposal to help
combat the evil at hand.
Bo
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (49 of 52), Read 68
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 03:53 PM
This may seem out of it or obvious but doesn't this book seem to be a
huge influence on Stephen King?
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (50 of 52), Read 72
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 04:39 PM
Candy -- I kept thinking IT as I read this one but I don't read King and
cringe at the scenes from the movie which I still see when I think of it.
Long story -- not worth repeating -- but I won't watch it again or read
the book just to compare it to Bradbury! Had enough trouble with
Something Wicked!
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (51 of 52), Read 74
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Katie Kleczka (pkleczka@uwm.edu)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 05:26 PM
Just as a side note, King listed Something Wicked This Way Comes as
one of the top 10 scariest books he had ever read. I would say Bradbury
is definitely one of his influences because of that and other similarities to
Bradbury's short story style.
Katie
"Everything in moderation, EXCEPT for reading."
Topic:
Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (52 of 52), Read 77
times
Conf:
READING LIST BOOKS
From:
Candy Minx (candyminx@hotmail.com)
Date:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 06:13 PM
Okay, I wondered about that...there is something there. I think SWTWCs
is one of the scariest books I've ever read too. I live alone and can't read
Stephen King because I get SO scared.(I've read two of his books and
that was so scary) But I think he may have said something about
Bradbury in his On Writing(which is very good and entertaining ) but I
didn't add it up since I read it a month or so ago...thanks...
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Ray Bradbury
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