To: ALL Date: 09/06
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 12:38 PM
SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS, History (Pt. 1 of 2) *** Dear All:
Courtesy of a Vintage Books reading-group guide (graciously
furnished to me by gail a while back), here's a sketch about
the historical background of the novel. (Free copies of the
reading guide can be ordered by phoning Vintage at
1-800-793-BOOK...)
***
Between 1901 and 1907, almost 110,000 Japanese immigrated
to the United States. They were drawn by promises of ready
work--American railroads actually sent recruiters to
Japanese port cities, offering laborers three to five times
their customary wages--and by worsening economic conditions
in their homeland, which was undergoing social upheaval in
the aftermath of the Meiji Restoration.
Although many originally came as *dekaseginin*--temporary
sojourners--work was plentiful, not only on the railroads,
but in the lumber camps, salmon fisheries, and fruit
orchards of Oregon and Washington. Increasingly, the
newcomers stayed on. Many purchased their own farms. In
time, these *issei*--first-generation Japanese--started
families.
The Japanese government actively encouraged emigration,
and although the Gentleman's Agreement of 1908 curbed the
flow of Japanese men, it allowed unrestricted entry to their
wives and children. Many women were "picture brides," who
came to join husbands they knew only through photographs and
letters and whom they had "married" by proxy in ceremonies
in their native villages.
Very quickly the newcomers encountered antagonism.
Although Japanese constituted less than two percent of all
immigrants to the U.S., newspapers trumpeted an "invasion."
The mayor of San Francisco proclaimed that "the Japanese are
not the stuff of which American citizens can be made." The
Sacramento Bee warned that "the Japs ... will increase like
rats" if allowed to settle down. The Asiatic Exclusion
League agitated for legislation to halt all Japanese
immigration. Politicians ran for office on anti-Japanese
platforms. In 1923, the state of Oregon prohibited *issei*
from legally buying land. A year later, Congress passed the
National Origins Act, which banned all immigration from
Japan.
In spite of this, the newcomers thrived. They found ways
of getting around some laws (under Oregon's Alien Land Law,
first-generation Japanese could legalize their land
purchases by registering them in the names of their
American-born--or *nisei*--children). They tolerated other
laws.
Meanwhile, the immigrants preserved the ceremonies and
values of Japan even as they encouraged their children to
acculturate and, particularly, to educate themselves. "You
must outperform your detractors," one *issei* counseled his
children. Typically, the *nisei* grew up thinking of
themselves as Americans, yet were reminded of their
difference every time they encountered the taunts and
ostracism of their white neighbors...
(Continued in next note)
=============== Note 17 =================
To: ALL Date: 09/06
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 12:41 PM
SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS, History (Pt. 2 of 2) *** (Cont.)
...Following the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor
on December 7, 1941, hostility turned into paranoia--and
paranoia became law.
Japanese who had lived in America for 30 years were
accused of spying for their native land. The day after Pearl
Harbor, the U.S. Treasury Department ordered all
Japanese-owned businesses closed and all *issei* bank
accounts frozen. The U.S. government had already compiled
lists of Japanese whose loyalties might be suspect, and more
than 1,000 businessmen, community leaders, priests, and
educators were arrested up and down the West Coast.
The restrictions escalated. Japanese homes were searched
for contraband. Telephone service was cut off. One newspaper
columnist wrote: "I am for the immediate removal of every
Japanese on the West Coast to a point deep in the interior
.... Herd 'em up, pack 'em off and give 'em the inside room
in the badlands... let 'em be pinched, hurt, and hungry."
In February 1942, President Franklin Roosevelt signed
Executive Order 9066, which empowered the government to
remove "any and all" persons of Japanese ancestry from
sensitive military areas in four western states.
Japanese residents had only days in which to evacuate.
They were compelled to sell their land and businesses for a
fraction of their value, or to lease them to neighbors who
would later refuse to pay their rent. All told, some 110,000
Japanese Americans were deported from their homes to hastily
built camps such as Tule Lake and Manzanar, where they lived
behind barbed wire for the duration of the war.
Neither Germans nor Italians living in this country were
subject to similar restrictions, and recently declassified
documents reveal that the Japanese population was never
considered a serious threat to American security. In all of
World War II, no person of Japanese ancestry living in the
United States, Alaska, or Hawaii was ever charged with any
act of espionage or sabotage. As one *nisei* later wrote,
the victims of Executive Order 9066 were people whose "only
crime was their face."
In 1988, the U.S. government formally apologized to
Japanese citizens who had been deprived of their civil
liberties during World War II.
(This information was gathered from Lauren Kessler,
STUBBORN TWIG: THREE GENERATIONS IN THE LIFE OF A
JAPANESE-AMERICAN FAMILY. New York, Random House, 1993.)
***
>>Dale in Ala.
=============== Reply 1 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/06
From: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Time: 1:33 PM
Dale: The 'relocation' of Japanese-Americans to 'internment
camps' during World War II is one of the great blots on our
country's history. As a lawyer, I am even more appalled that
these actions were upheld by our Supreme Court, when they in
fact knew better. See, *Korematsu v. United States*, 323
U.S. 214 (1944), particularly Justice Jackson's dissent. Not
a few of the Nazis Jackson prosecuted at Nurenburg must have
gone to the gallows chuckling at the hypocrisy of it. Well,
maybe not chuckling, but at least smirking.
Dick in Alaska where we also transported and interned the
Aleut peoples of the Pribilofs during World War II
=============== Reply 2 of Note 17 =================
To: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Date: 09/06
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 11:08 PM
Dick,
I certainly agree that the internment of Japanese-Americans
was a blot on our history. I have a friend who was born in
the Hart Mountain camp in Wyoming. She has never complained
about her family being sent to the camp, but it must have
been awful. It is a good thing that they didn't send away
German Americans at the same time, isn't it? Jane whose
maiden name is Geiger.
=============== Reply 3 of Note 17 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 09/07
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 1:10 AM
Or the Italian-Americans. (But then we Italians and Germans
didn't "look" like the enemy.)
Ruth, whose birth name is Bavetta
=============== Reply 4 of Note 17 =================
To: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Date: 09/07
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 9:45 AM
Dick: Why do you think someone as eminent as a Supreme Court
justice caves in on an issue like the Japanese "internment"?
I would suspect political pressure is at the forefront,
despite all the checks and balances the system supposedly
puts in place to insulate the Court from such.
In this case, do you think any of the Justices had
personal agendas along the Japanese-American line,
and...horrors...has there ever been a clear case of a
Justice who let filthy lucre (or its equivalent) play a part
in his/her decision, as is the case at other levels of the
system?
>>Dale, woefully ignorant of much American history
=============== Reply 5 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/07
From: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Time: 10:56 AM
Dale: Someone, I don't recall who, said "Even the Supreme
Court reads the newspapers." As to how a majority of the
Supreme Court could reach the Korematsu decision I don't
know. Perhaps it's one of those fundamental differences in
the way we look at the world now, versus how people looked
at it 50 years ago. I know my mother is quite vehement that
the internments were justified -- we (my generation and
those younger) just don't understand the state the country
was in, the threat that existed, etc. She does not want to
hear that the government, in fact, knew better and was using
the internments as a political gesture to a panicked
populace, far more than it was for any real national
security purpose. However, I've never read that there was
any sort of personal agenda involved in the Korematsu
decision -- somebody picking up a nissei farm for a song,
for example. As far as I know it was just good old public
hysteria, that ran from Joe Sixpack all the way up to the
Harvard-trained idiots at the top, coupled with some
astonishingly cynical political manipulation from our
national leaders (note how silent we are on Roosevelt's
failure to step forward on this issue; a lot easier to whack
the generals and the Supreme Court than to turn on the
patron saint of modern liberalism, who could have stopped
the policy with the lifting of a finger). And, finally, I
never heard of a crooked Supreme. I would be surprised if
there weren't a couple, however, going back to the 19th
century, and the railroad barons, etc.
Dick in Alaska, heading off to work on yet another Saturday
=============== Reply 6 of Note 17 =================
To: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Date: 09/07
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 12:55 PM
Dale and Dick,
I lived in California during those years. I was just a kid
(no kidding and no pun) so I was hardly aware of the
Japanese internment until after the war when I was 10. But
that's when all of a sudden I began to have Japanese friends
in school I hadn't had them before, because they weren't
there.
I do remember that here on the West Coast we got pretty
panicky about a possible Japanese invasion. My dad was an
Air Raid Warden (my gentle, 5'5" biochemist dad, so that
goes to show you exactly how panicky we were. And he was
Italian born, so that goes to show you the difference in
attitudes). I have very clear memories of the "false" air
battle over Los Angeles. (No one's ever figured that one
out, or if they have, nobody's telling.)
But anyway, we had blackouts by the coast. The top half of
our automobile headlights were to be painted black. There
was camoflage net over anything that could remotely be
considered a target. We kids all wore engraved metal ID
bracelets (presumably so the body could be identified, but
that's not what my mom told me). California literally
thought we would be next after Pearl Harbor.
I'm not giving this as an excuse. The internment was
unquestionable a terrible thing, indeed a blot on our
history as Jane says, unfair and unconstitutional, and
almost anything else you want to call it. (About 25 years
ago I went to an exhibit of photographs from the internment
experience and it reduced me to tears, especially the
picture of a Japanese mother standing next to a flag with 2
gold stars, which means 2 of her sons were killed fighting
for the country that sent her off to Manzanar.) And yes,
Dick, I have heard that there was a great deal of
pocket-lining going on, altho I suppose not the pockets of
the Supreme Court.
I remember seeing signs in store windows saying "Chinese
owned", representing the fear of other Asians in the
community.
Ruth, who has been to Manzanar many times. There's nothing
left there, but dry (not really desert) valley floor, a
stone gatepost and a spectacular view of the east face of
the Sierra Nevada
=============== Reply 7 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/07
From: EUCR61A RICHARD HAGGART Time: 3:37 PM
Ruth: I don't think there is any question that the general
population was in a panic after Pearl Harbor about possible
attacks on the west coast -- however, the national
leadership knew substantially better, and chose to use the
panic and fear to galvanize the war effort. Shipping off the
nissei was a cheap victory and gave the appearance of
governmental action at a time when not much dramatic seemed
possible. It is quite interesting to note that early
conferences on U.S. war aims immediately relegated Japan to
a VERY secondary status, relative to Germany, and resources
for the Pacific theater were severely constrained relative
to those we were committing to Europe. The wisdom of this
policy was evidenced by the fact that Japan was decisively
defeated at Midway less than 6 months after Pearl Harbor --
approximately one-third of Japan's carrier fleet was sunk
and their cadre of trained naval aviators was never
completely rebuilt. The scope and early timing of the Midway
victory was slightly surprising to Allied leaders, but the
general course of the Pacific war was never in doubt, from
the time the Japanese planes first appeared over Honolulu.
Of course you don't whip the nation into a war frenzy by
announcing, "These guys are a bunch of 19th century chumps
with a handful of modern weapons and virtually no industrial
infrastructure to replace them if they lose them." Much
better to scare people to death about the invading horde.
Anyway, despite popular support for the internment policy, I
don't blame the citizenry nearly as much as I do the
government. We were a pretty docile country in 1942 and it
was a lot easier to put one over on us than it would be
today (well, at least a little easier). We're some smarter
and much more cynical today -- I do hope that cynicism
wouldn't prevent us from being as steadfast as our parents
were, if the need ever should arise again.
Dick in Alaska, where ALL his nissei classmate's parents
were interned -- the Kimuras, the Sawadas, the Odatas and
Fujimoros to name those I can remember. When the subject
first came up in school, about 7th grade or so, I remember
those kids just bowed their heads and wouldn't talk about
it, even though the teacher was basically lashing the
government for its actions. They were still ashamed, as if
their families had done something wrong.
=============== Reply 8 of Note 17 =================
To: EUCR61A RICHARD HAGGART Date: 09/07
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 5:37 PM
Dick, I wasn't trying to argue with you or exonerate either
the people or the government. Just thought I was one of the
(very) few to post here that was old enough to remember what
it was like during those years, so I thought I'd share it
with you. BTW I remember seeing those awful posters of a
grinning Tojo with squinty eyes and buck teeth.
Reprehensible!
Ruth, opting for the personal touch
=============== Reply 9 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/07
From: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Time: 7:36 PM
Ruth: It's o.k. You can argue with me. I don't get mad .
Dick in Alaska, looking forward to the 'Cedars' discussion
and hoping SOMEONE will defend the poor government
=============== Reply 10 of Note 17 =================
To: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Date: 09/07
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 7:43 PM
But in this case I don't want to argue with you. You are
very probably completely right.
Ruth, who's not afraid of big,bad Alaskans
=============== Reply 11 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/08
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 10:21 AM
Ruth: Great note, on life in California during WWII. Really
brought that time alive for me.
My father wasn't in the armed services, but I have two
uncles who were. One fought with Patton's infantry in
Europe, and the other was a fighter pilot who spent a year
in a Japanese P.O.W. camp. He's never been comfortable
talking about it, even to family, and when we lose him (he's
80+, and his Parkinson's is worsening almost daily) that
whole experience will die with him.
BTW, I'd like to know more about the air battle over L.A.
that "never happened"...the subject vaguely rings a bell,
but I don't think I've ever heard the details.
>>Dale in Ala., who's also savoring the latest Ruth B. in
print: SO I WOULDN'T DROWN. Beautiful stuff...
=============== Reply 12 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/08
From: FNMN56E LYNN EVANS Time: 11:34 AM
Dale, Have you seen the John Belushi movie 1941? It probably
wouldn't help much... Lynn
=============== Reply 13 of Note 17 =================
To: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Date: 09/08
From: KEXT98A TONYA PRESLEY Time: 12:45 PM
Dick and all,
You rang a very faint bell in my head with this note. I
recall seeing an old general (or something) in an interview
in the last two years or so, and was surprised to hear him
say the Japanese could have knocked us practically out of
the war (before we even began) if they'd flown just the
tiniest bit farther. He said ALL our fuel was stored in one
location, somewhere near Pearl Harbor. And if they had
bombed that instead, we'd have been up the proverbial creek.
It was expecially surprising, because it wasn't long ago,
yet was the first time I'd ever heard it. Can anyone verify
if I remember this correctly? Tonya
=============== Reply 14 of Note 17 =================
To: KEXT98A TONYA PRESLEY Date: 09/08
From: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Time: 1:07 PM
Tonya: I've read speculation about the effects of the loss
of the Navy's fuel bunkers at Pearl Harbor -- and how such a
loss would have been far more devastating than the ships and
planes that were actually lost. Such ahistorical speculation
seems to be a favorite pastime of old warriors and arm-chair
wannabes. I'm always skeptical of such stories, at least in
their extreme versions ('would have changed the course of
the war') -- we weren't short of oil or refining capacity in
1941 so the loss of stored fuel would have been an annoyance
more than a crisis. Recall how the air raids on Ploesti had
such a minimal effect on German fuel supplies -- and those
refineries represented a signficant percentage of all
German refining capacity -- they could repair 'em as fast as
we could bomb 'em. Until the Russians took the oil fields,
the Germans were pumping oil and making fuel. Wars, like
other great economic contests, are the sum of a great many
parts. Tweaking events here or there wouldn't usually have
much dramatic effect in the overall scheme of things --
although, our human desire for drama on a human scale always
searchs for the Richard III situations ('for want of
nail....')
Dick in Alaska, just brimming with uninformed speculations
=============== Reply 15 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/08
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 3:16 PM
Dale, I've got a long-winded reply about LA during WWII, but
for some reason P* is not letting me upload. Will try again
later,
Ruth
=============== Reply 16 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/08
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:13 PM
Ruth and all,
My father was working on Wake Island in 1941 when he had a
month of leave and came home to marry my mother on November
6. He got on board a ship on December 7 and was ready to
head back to Wake Island when the Japanese attacked. Lucky
for me that my Dad was on that ship because everyone who was
on his crew on Wake Island was lined up on the beach and
shot by the Japanese. My father spent the next few weeks
helping to clear the mess at Pearl Harbor. He doesn't like
to talk about this part of his Pacific experience. To this
day, he won't buy anything Japanese unless he can help it.
Even though my '95 Subaru was built in W. Lafayette, IND.,
he wouldn't buy one himself. He has no objection to my
buying one, however. Jane who loves hearing from people who
"lived" history.
=============== Reply 17 of Note 17 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 09/08
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 10:54 PM
I think we can have a nice discussion of WWII here and salve
our consciences that it's good background for SFOC. I'm
dying to contribute more, but I'm such a lousy typist on
line. I'm going to try again to upload the windy post I
wrote this morning. If it's not the next post, you'll know
P is still constipated.
Ruth
=============== Reply 18 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/09
From: KGXC73A GAIL SINGER GROSS Time: 0:39 AM
greetings dddRUTH..
you have such a way with words....
gail..hp. a passionate reader...and hope we can receive your
post soon...at least prior to the next slo mo book!
=============== Reply 19 of Note 17 =================
To: KGXC73A GAIL SINGER GROSS Date: 09/09
From: NDKB53A THERESA SIMPSON Time: 1:23 AM
I started to read Snow Falling on Cedars a few months ago,
but couldn't get into it and set it aside. Now that I hear
it's just the first couple chapters that are slow think I'll
give it another try.
Theresa - who still intends to read The Optimist's Daughter
(and who should have avoided reading the posts on that book
until post-reading).
=============== Reply 20 of Note 17 =================
To: NDKB53A THERESA SIMPSON Date: 09/09
From: FNMN56E LYNN EVANS Time: 1:35 AM
Hmm. I don't recall thinking it picked up much. The
narrator's mother is a total cliche. Fortunately her part is
extremely short. Other parts worked better, but I wouldn't
say it ever picked up steam. Lynn
=============== Reply 21 of Note 17 =================
To: NDKB53A THERESA SIMPSON Date: 09/09
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 1:42 AM
Theresa, I don't belong to the school of "don't read the
posts until later". I think that sometimes what other
people have to say really helps me get more out of the book.
But that's just me, of course.
Ruth
=============== Reply 22 of Note 17 =================
To: FNMN56E LYNN EVANS Date: 09/09
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 7:59 PM
Lynn,
Are you talking about Ishmael's mother? The book was told in
the third person, I think. If so, I kind of liked
encountering a character in a book who was a constant reader
Ann
=============== Reply 23 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/09
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 10:59 PM
Dale,
I'm going round and round with P* again. Suffice it to say
I'm typing in this rather lengthy note online, so plead
forgiveness for the multiple puigs I shall probably committ.
I was born in 1935, which makes my memories of WWII those of
a child, filtered through the things I learned later as a
teenager and an adult. An unreliable mix. My father was
just a little too old for the drart. He tried to volunteer,
over my mother's prostrate body, but was rejected on the
grounds that he was in an "essential occupation"l He taught
biochemistry at the School of Dentistry at USC. The Navy
ook over the place during the war, so he as teaching Navy
dentists. Even fighting men get cavities...
The GREAT CALIFORNIA AIR RAID has been much discussed.
There's even been a book or two written about it, I think.
I don't know the dtate of theis event, nor am I egven sure
of the year, but it must have ben 1943. We were living in
the Silver Lake district of Los Angeles, a few miles east
and north of where I met you. We (my parents, my brother
and I) went next door, down to my grandmothber's basement.
Our houses sat side by side at the top of a very steep hill.
We lived on the top part, so the down side, our "basement"
was not a true basement, but just dug back into the hill.
What I remember is noise--sirens, and poom,poom,poom, and
searchlights crisscrossing the sky, over the hills across
the reservoir (Silver Lake is a reservoir, named after a man
anmed Silver.) I was excited. This was an adventure, to be
sleeping on cots, next to the furnace. After a long time,
everything quieted down, but we still didn't hear the all
clear signal. My father got disgusted and went upstairs to
sleep in his own bed. The rest of us slept in the basement
until morning.
There has been much speculation as to exactly what happened
For a long time the most accepted explanation has been that
it was weather balloons or something of that ilk that set
off the alarms. Others have said that that story is a
government cover-up. (Dick, are you listening?) Anywy,
there are almost as many stories as there are people willing
to write about it. Every once in another one still hits the
paper. (There are also stories of Japanese subs being
sighted off the coast, but that's something I knew nothing
of as a child.)
My clearest memories are not of the War itself, but of the
consequences to our daily life: Gas rationing (decals stuck
to the windshield, "Is this trip necessary?") Little red
stamps (later replaced by little red tokens) for meat
rationing (we raised chickens and rabbits on a city lot
during the war). Extra sugar coupons (blue) for those who
were going to can fruits and vegetables. Homemade soap that
looked like a bar of gjetost, the Norwegian cheese.
The gas mask in the closet, which was only for my father,
because he was an Air Raid Warden, supposed to take charge
of our block when the bombs came. (I kused to like to put
the mask on and march around, until my mother put a stop to
it. "I hate to see you in that," she said. I thought she
was unreasonable.) The posters and signs every where,
"Closed for the Duration", "Loose Lips Sink Ships,", etc.
And the drives to collect stuff: Blood Drives, Can Drives,
Rubber Drives, Scrap Metal Drives, Newspaper Drives. My
mother earned a bronze pin, which she proudly wore, for
donating X number of pints of blood. In a fit of patriotism
I pried the rubber wheels off my toy fire engine to donate
to the Cause. And it took me 20 yuears to stop calling a
vegetable garden a Victory Garden. I could go on and on...
Ruth, who remembers exactly what she was doing on Pearl
Harbor Day
=============== Reply 24 of Note 17 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 09/10
From: FNMN56E LYNN EVANS Time: 4:26 AM
Yes, Ishmael's mother. Well yes, she sounded quirkily
interesting, I suppose, but oddly indifferent to her son's
problems. She seemed to have a don't ask/don't tell policy
that I didn't buy in a woman who wasn't otherwise
pathological in some way! Lynn
=============== Reply 25 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/10
From: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Time: 6:52 AM
Ruth,
Truly fascinating note...my sister was born two years
later than you and her memories are not quite as distinct
but she has told me some of them...so much more interesting
than the history books...and I love history. I was born
right after the war and only have her memories left to go
on because both my parents are dead. Next time I see her,
I think I'm going to pump her a bit for some more
impressions, with the inspiration of this note.
Barb
=============== Reply 26 of Note 17 =================
To: FNMN56E LYNN EVANS Date: 09/10
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 6:26 PM
Lynn,
Regarding Ishmael's mother, maybe it was a generational
thing. People of my parents' generation would often go to
great lengths to avoid discussing any kind of personal
problems, and since this story was set around World War II,
Ishmael(sp?)'s mother would have been even older. I think
that we are much more open about discussing these kinds of
things today.
And, you know, the mother was also into flowers, which made
me doubly predisposed in her favor.
Ann
=============== Reply 27 of Note 17 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 09/10
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 6:42 PM
Ann: I agree. I don't think Ishmael's mother was necessarily
being insensitive toward his problems. In addition to the
generational aspect, she seems to be one of those
independent, survivor, get-on-with-it types who felt, by her
own lights, that she was doing what was in her son's best
interest...sort of a "tough love" approach, to cop a
contemporary description.
Whether her reaction was appropriate is another question.
My own mother has shown an uncanny ability for knowing when
to be sweet and supportive, and when my chain needs jerking
a bit. Ishmael at that moment, though, I'm not sure
about... >>Dale in Ala.
=============== Reply 28 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/10
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:45 PM
Ruth,
I really enjoyed your note as well. I have heard
interesting stories from my parents, and as Barbara said, it
is much better than reading a history book. My Mom tells
about painting a line up the back of her leg because women
couldn't get stockings, and the line was supposed to look
like the seam. Some of the younger folk probably don't know
about the seams on stockings. Jane who likes to cast aside
her pantyhose in the warm weather and who doesn't bother to
paint seams on her legs.
=============== Reply 29 of Note 17 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 09/11
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 3:51 AM
Oh, yes Jane. I remember about people doing that, the seams
on the leg thing. With an eyebrow pencil, I believe. My
mom didn't do it, but she did wear this awful stuff called
"leg makeup".
Ruth, just back from a lovely evening at the Hollywood Bowl
=============== Reply 30 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/11
From: FNMN56E LYNN EVANS Time: 10:28 AM
Ann and Dale -- But the "rest" of Ishmael's mother, the part
not standing on ceremony when it came to discussing (or not)
his troubles, seemed made up of various bits and pieces left
over from the heyday of hippiedom. She seemed an
unebelievable mix to me. I can believe a woman of her
generation might well be rigid, but I would've then expected
to see that threaded through her a bit more. And come to
think of it, her not discussing her son's problems seemed
not to come from any stiff-upper-lip-ness so much as from a:
we're all strangers on this bus, my connection to my son is
no less but no greater than anybody else's, etc. etc.
Oh well, she just rang false to me is all. Lynn
=============== Reply 31 of Note 17 =================
To: FNMN56E LYNN EVANS Date: 09/11
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 8:15 PM
Gosh Lynn,
I read this book a couple of months ago and with my usual
facility for forgetting things I can't remember too many
details. You have, however, inspired me to go back to the
book and check out the parts with Ishmael's mother. I'll try
to report back later. At this point, I can only say that,
for some reason, I liked this woman and nothing about her
struck me as false. Her style of mothering is certainly not
mine, but it did not surprise me. I would not call her rigid
--reticent maybe.
Do you suppose the difference in our reaction is related to
how we were raised? Other readers of SFOC, keep Ishmael's
mother in mind and let us know how you react to her.
Ann
BTW, what did you think about Carl's mother --now there was
someone who was rigid! She was the only character in the
book whom I really hated it.
=============== Reply 32 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/12
From: SACQ68B LISA GUIDARINI Time: 3:33 PM
Dale and all:
Greetings from the Land of the Lost! I finally got a chance
to breeze through here quickly and I saw that you've been
discussing Snow Falling on Cedars. I read that last spring
and found it a beautiful book. It's one of the better books
I've read this year (also one of the few, but we don't need
to mention that).
Lisa
=============== Reply 33 of Note 17 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 09/12
From: FDLX59B MARY ANNE PAPALE Time: 7:26 PM
Lynn and all,
I think if I had a son Ishmael's age who still carried a
flame for his adolescent sweetheart, I would probably take
the "get on with your life" approach too. Her character for
me was the counterbalance to Ishmael's extreme inertia.
I am curious whether any CRs care to speculate on why
Guterson chose the name Ishmael. There are both biblical and
MOBY DICK connotations here. Surely the choice is not
accidental.
MAP
=============== Reply 34 of Note 17 =================
To: FDLX59B MARY ANNE PAPALE Date: 09/12
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:12 PM
Mary Anne,
I noticed the name Ishmael right away, too, but the author
wants us to know right away that he is aware of what the
reader might be thinking when he talks about Ishmael
studying literature, particularly MOBY DICK. But still, one
can't escape comparisons given the setting and the number of
fishermen in the story. Jane who is on page 320 and who is
glad that there isn't a blizzard going on here. (The author
captures the feeling of helplessness very well.)
=============== Reply 35 of Note 17 =================
To: FDLX59B MARY ANNE PAPALE Date: 09/13
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 8:31 PM
Mary Anne,
We discussed this book in our local book club, and most of
the women lacked sympathy for Ishmael and had a hard time
understanding why he found it so difficult just to get on
with his life. Maybe because I am more confused than most
, I found it very easy to relate to him.
His problems didn't just stem from disappointment in a
childhood/teenage love affair (although you have to admit,
that it is hard to imagine being let down any harder than
when Hatsue gave him the final brush off in the tree house
--so close and yet SO far). I think that his horribly brutal
war experiences with the Japanese and the loss of his arm
really complicated and confused all of his feelings and
were the true source of his inability to get on with his
life. The fact that Hatsue had a Japanese face and practiced
many elements of Japanese culture
encouraged him to mix his feelings of love for her with
hatred for all things Japanese. It was difficult for him to
untangle disappointment in love and the trauma he
experienced in the war. By turning over the information that
freed Kabuo, I think he finally freed himself and was ready
to move forward.
One thing this book really gave me was a much deeper
appreciation for what men of my father's generation suffered
during the Second World War. I was used to thinking of post
traumatic stress syndrome affecting men from my own
generation who served in Viet Nam, but, of course, it only
stands to reason that men from earlier wars also went
through tremendous psychological turmoil. Three of the males
in this book, Ishmael, Carl, and Kabuo were all haunted by
their war experiences. For World War II veterans, however,
it was not socially acceptable for them to talk about it
openly. Perhaps it never is.
Incidentally, chapter 24 talks about Ishmael's mother in
detail. It says that he never told her about his affair with
Hatsue nor really confided in her about his feelings, so I
can't blame her for telling him she just couldn't
understand him. Yeah, and now I remember why I liked her
. How many people do you know like her who like to read
books by Shakespeare, Henry James, Dickens, Hardy, Oscar
Wilde, Charlotte Bronte, etc? For me, outside of all the
wonderful folks on the P* boards, the answer is -- none.
Ann
=============== Reply 36 of Note 17 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 09/13
From: NDKB53A THERESA SIMPSON Time: 10:40 PM
Hi Ann. For an excellent fictional treatment of the effects
of WWII on its vets, try Machine Dreams by Jayne Anne
Phillips. I think I've mentioned Phillips here a few times
- she writes some very bleak and bare short stories. Her
novel Machine Dreams reminded me of Ann Beattie, if Beattie
had a soul, that is.
Theresa
=============== Reply 37 of Note 17 =================
To: NDKB53A THERESA SIMPSON Date: 09/15
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 11:10 AM
Thanks for the suggestion of MACHINE DREAMS, Theresa.
Ann
=============== Reply 38 of Note 17 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 09/17
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 10:26 AM
All,
In the original note on this thread, Dale posted excerpts
from the Vintage Books Reading Group Guide. Now that many of
you have either finished or are deep into SNOC, I would like
to post some of the discussion questions. Let's start at #1.
SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS opens in the middle of Kabuo
Miyamoto's trial. It will be pages before we learn the crime
of which he has been accused or the nature of the evidence
against him. What effect does the author create by
withholding this information and introducing it in the form
of flashbacks? Where else in the narrative are critical >
revelations postponed? How is this novel's past related to
its fictional present?
Any thoughts?
Sherry gearing up for Nashville
=============== Reply 39 of Note 17 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 09/17
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 7:45 PM
Sherry,
As far as the start of SNOC (what an acronym, snoc, snoc,
sounds like cvort, cvort), it's the old trick of starting a
story *in medias res*, right in the middle of things. It's
a great hook to pull the reader in. We're dropped as if
from the sky right into a strange place. The questions,
where are we and how did we get here, become even more
important than where are we going and and why are we going
there. Those latter questions only surge forward farther on
in the book, after we've got a handle on things.
This method of opening a book or story is a device used so
often, I wonder why the study guide thought it was
signficant enough for a question. The hook succeeded
superbly in my case, though, as I was immediately intrigued.
By the cold and snow, by the encounter of Ishmael with
Kabuo's wife (whose name escapes me at the moment and I
can't find my copy of the book), with the death of the
fisherman.
This book was a real page-turner. I mean, bango, we've got
a murder to solve. A puzzle. This is what sucks us into
the usual murder mystery, even when we know it's not going
to be wonderful literature. Yet it soon becomes clear that
Guterson is writing more than a murder mystery. There's the
thread of Ishmael's obssession with, oh, damn, what was her
name. And the exploration of the American/Japanese
confrontation here at home during WWII. And the theme of
place, which almost becomes a character.
Ruth
=============== Reply 40 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/17
From: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Time: 10:47 PM
Ruth: Bang-on comment. And it certainly seemed to me that
where the novel fell down was in the transition from
fascinating criminal procedure story to
psychological/historical tale, and then somewhat belatedly,
back again. The story was compelling; indeed EACH story was
compelling. It was the technical melding of the two
different stories that I think came up short. I liked each
story very much -- just the two together didn't work all
that well. Very talented writer, however, and the underlying
themes were deserving of a long hard look. I think the next
novel or two is going to be better, although I did like this
one quite a lot (we read so many four-star books here that
anything less than a homerun and I feel like I'm panning the
book)
Dick in Alaska who also believes this young man could use
some lessons in writing about driving on slick roads,
particularly with elderly vehicles
=============== Reply 41 of Note 17 =================
To: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Date: 09/17
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 11:56 PM
I agree with you, Dick, that the melding of the various
facets of the story (or stories) is not exactly seemless.
What I liked most about this book was that it was a brave
attempt, and it was a cracking good read. I noticed, too,
all the Scandinavian names (including Guterson), which would
be a good reflection of the ethnicity of the area. I never
knew there was a nest of Japanese in that place, though.
Ruth, who's never, ever driven on an icy road.
=============== Reply 42 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/18
From: DCTW04A MARTY PRIOLA Time: 1:42 AM
In medias res was a convention of epic poetry, e.g., THE
ILIAD (I'm rereading it now; the Fagles translation is
superb), PARADISE LOST. I'm wondering if this book (which
I haven't read) is suggesting that its main character is an
epic hero of some sort.
Just throwing that out there for your consideration.
--IDJP, bound up in the Herculean task of law school--the
next to last semester.
=============== Reply 43 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/18
From: XWST19A DEBORAH ZAPF Time: 1:54 AM
Ruth: "...a nest of Japanese"? We discussed SFOC on the
Mystery Novels Topic back in May. One of the conclusions we
came to was that a major point the author made was that, no
matter what has changed since WWII, there are still people
who do not look at others as Americans if they look other
than what they think an American should look like. The book
had merit, needed more loose ends tied up, but we felt that
human nature and prejudice have not changed all that much,
no matter how good our intentions.
Just a thought.
Debbie, who's driven on thin ice in many places, including
here!
=============== Reply 44 of Note 17 =================
To: XWST19A DEBORAH ZAPF Date: 09/18
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 2:15 AM
Perhaps you read into my term "a nest of Japanese" something
which I hadn't intended. Ethnic groups in the United States
have tended to settle in groups. Hence the Irish & Italians
in Boston, the Scandinavians in Minnesota and Seattle, etc.
That's all I meant by "a nest of Japanese"---an ethnic group
gathered together. I was just surprised to discover there
was such a group of Japanese in the locale of this story.
Of course, come to think of it, this is fiction and San
Piedro is a fictional island. Was there really a settlement
of Japanese in this area? Does anyone know.
Ruth, who didn't intend any ethnic slurs
=============== Reply 45 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/18
From: XWST19A DEBORAH ZAPF Time: 4:15 AM
I'm sure you didn't intend any "ethnic slur" in your note.
Perhaps because of our discussion on the Mystery Novel bb I
was more sensitive to it in terms of this book and how sad
it is that it's something we need to be aware of so today's
children don't continue to judge others by how they look.
Besides, it's late and that's when I get all philosophical,
actually I do that if something hits me just so!
Debbie, wishing you well
=============== Reply 46 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/18
From: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Time: 12:07 PM
Ruth: The Puget Sound area has had a very healthy
Japanese-American population as long as I've known anything
about it (as has Anchorage and any other west coast city
I've ever visited). And, like Central American immigrants,
they often would group together based on area of origin in
Japan (I've handled immigration matters where they had found
20 or 30 people from the same small village in Mexico or
Nicaragua working at the same place and they told me about
how they traveled to Alaska, up a veritable underground
railroad of contacts, all from their orginal village.
Interesting phenomenon. I've always felt the INS {the
bastards} had no business messing with anyone who had
worked that hard to get here and was working that hard to
stay.) Whether there are any such little communities up in
the San Juans, I don't know. Given the Japanese cultural
background in truck farming and fishing (both activities
pursued in the islands), I'd bet money on it though.
Dick in Alaska, where we got nests of oil company folks
=============== Reply 47 of Note 17 =================
To: ZRPD32A RICHARD HAGGART Date: 09/18
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 1:42 PM
Here are the next two questions from the study guide.
2.The trial functions both as this novel's narrative frame
and as its governing metaphor. As we follow it, we are
compelled to ask larger questions about the nature of truth,
guilt, and responsibility. How does the author interweave
these two functions? Which characters are aware that what
is at stake is more than one man's guilt?
3.When the trial begins, San Piedro is in the midst of a
snowstorm, which continues throughout its course. What role
does snow play--both literally and metaphorically--in the
book? Pay particular attention to the way in which snow
blurs, freezes, isolates, and immobilizes, even as it holds
out the promise of an "impossible winter purity." (p.8) How
does nature shape this novel?
(It seems like the question sort of answered itself there
for a bit, don't you think?)
Sherry
=============== Reply 48 of Note 17 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 09/18
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:29 PM
Ruth,
There is a fairly large settlement of Japanese people here
in Denver, large enough to warrant a temple and a couple of
great Japanese markets. The original group came in to farm.
Jane who will be heading to Nashville in the morning!
=============== Reply 49 of Note 17 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 09/20
From: SPZQ45A AMY TRABITZ Time: 5:34 PM
Ann,
I really agree with your insightful and very articulate
analysis of Ishmael's experience! I was thinking very
similar things, but you said it so much better than I, that
I'll simply agree!!!
Amy, who really enjoyed the book, but also found it hard to
get into at the beginning!
=============== Reply 50 of Note 17 =================
To: SPZQ45A AMY TRABITZ Date: 09/21
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 3:59 PM
Amy,
Thank you for your kind comments. People react so
differently to books and characters. It's nice to hear from
someone who shared my sympathy for Ishmael. At my book club
here in Omaha, I felt like his lone defender. This
surprised me, because while I was reading the book I just
assumed that everyone would empathize with him as much as I
did.
I feel pretty encouraged that a book as well written as this
one was on the best sellers list for so long, don't you?
Here on CR we all enjoy hearing what everyone else is
reading. Have you read any other good books lately?
Ann
=============== Reply 51 of Note 17 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 09/22
From: BUYS59A BARBARA HILL Time: 5:41 PM
After one month on the raod and two with houseguests I am
about to tackle my TBR pile with a vengeance! Just finished
SFOC. Am halfway thru Hank and Chloe which I started during
our stay at the coast, and am also reading Clear Pictures by
Reynolds Price.
SFOC: After reading thru the discussion guide that Gail
sent out here are my comments: By starting with the trial
and revealing the story in flashbacks it keeps us in
suspense about what actually happened and who might be
involved. The isolation of the inhabitants on the island
has shaped their character turning them inward and snow
becomes a metaphor for that character (freezing, blurring).
For the Japanese sending them to camps during the war was a
further depersonalization. The trial brought out how facts
can be misjudged the same as people can. The parallelism in
the Jap-Anglo lives,that is pointed out, lets us see how
racism blinds us to the fact that we are all only human and
have the same problems, etc. So maybe the book is saying
transcendence is possible but I felt that for most of the
island inhabitants reconciliation with their limits was the
best we could expect.
Because of the closed nature of the characters I had trouble
sympathizing with any of them. It was a big relief when at
the end Ishmael did the right thing. Barb in Oregon
=============== Reply 52 of Note 17 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 09/22
From: UPDQ58A PEGGY RAMSEY Time: 9:20 PM
Ann
I too felt sorry for Ishmael. I like it when the fictional
characters are as flawed as we are. His life isn't
enviable, but it's understandable.
This whole novel was an eye opener for me. The treatment of
Japanese-Americans in the war years was kind of an
historical blank for me -- I *knew* what happened, but SNOC
showed me what happened.
Peggy, periodically naive
=============== Reply 53 of Note 17 =================
To: UPDQ58A PEGGY RAMSEY Date: 09/22
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 10:37 PM
Okay, the line for Ishmael sympathisers forms to the left.
Of course, I felt sorry for the poor shmuck. He suffered
from his afflictions of the spirit as much as his affliction
of the flesh, even if the former were much of his own
making.
Ruth, who has never been in a blizzard
=============== Reply 54 of Note 17 =================
To: UPDQ58A PEGGY RAMSEY Date: 09/23
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 8:53 PM
Peggy & All: Good to see a few kind words for ol' Ishmael,
here. I agree with Ruth that his spiritual angst was largely
of his own making, but isn't that the case with all of us?
Doesn't make it any less angstier, in any event.
It's easy to pooh-pooh a man who's never quit loving his
high school sweetheart and "gotten on" with life, but I
think his predicament struck a chord in me because I feel
virtually all of us, truth be known, have much unfinished
business with the past. Who doesn't carry around the fresh
scab of some grand emotional lost cause, while knowing
logically how absurd and unproductive it is?
>>Dale in Ala.
=============== Reply 55 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/24
From: KGXC73A GAIL SINGER GROSS Time: 9:29 PM
greetings to all in our SLO MO BOOK GROUP...
i was fortunate enough to have received an
interview..audio..with dave gutterson and CBJ kindly
duplicated them and gave them out in NASHVILLE....I have
contacted all the people to listen to the audio promptly and
kindly mail it to the next person...i am maintaining the
list and hopefully the audio will magically appear in your
mailbox so you can hear dave gutterson's voice...if nothing
else... thanks CBJ..what would i do without you!
gail..hp.. a passionate reader in cool and breezy SAN
FRANCISCO...
=============== Reply 56 of Note 17 =================
To: KGXC73A GAIL SINGER GROSS Date: 09/24
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 11:03 PM
chere petite gail,
I have been listening to the Gutterson tape that you and
Dale so kindly provided for us. I should finish by the end
of the week, and then it will be in the mail to Ruth.
I have been thinking about the snowstorm as it relates to
the trial. Not only does it symbolize the closed down minds
of the townspeople, it seems to mirror the state of mind of
Kabuo. He seems frozen inside his body in that he is unable
to show any emotion. I found it interesting that he was
thinking of the trial as his punishment for killing men in
the war. Just a thought as I breeze through CR. Jane who
gave a copy of CORELLI'S MANDOLIN to her running buddy
today.
=============== Reply 57 of Note 17 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 09/26
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 12:00 PM
I just finished listening to the tape of the David Guterman
interview that gracious gail provided while we were in
Nashville. Thanks to gail, and thanks to Dale for making
copies. I thought it was very worthwhile listening and shed
light on the writing process. Guterman told how he wanted
to write a book where the starting point was this question:
in the face of a uncaring universe what is the right way for
mankind to behave? Do people think that he succeeded in
answering this question? Do you think that he succeeded in
ASKING this question?
Sherry in Milwaukee where there is no doubt that it is fall
=============== Reply 58 of Note 17 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 09/26
From: PDSG17A MAUREEN DAVIN Time: 1:20 PM
I just finished reading SFOC this morning -- a truly
wonderful book and I feel one that will stay in my heart for
quite awhile.
Of course I knew about Japanese relocation camps from
history class but more as a fact than a situation based on
unfounded fear, racial discrimination and REAL people. My
age and regional location helped to create the image of a
piece of history that occurred "out there, back then".
Anyway, I'm so glad to have read this book, and I do plan to
continue my reading -- the study guide offers several
sources.
Sherry, you asked whether or not David Guterson, answered
his question, "What is the right way for mankind to behave?
I think he did in a round about way. He presented all these
stories within the story and using the omnicient
point-of-view, we could see what the situation was and we
could see how most of the characters chose the "wrong" way
to behave. Though rarely mentioned, I think the trouble
begins with Horace the medical examiners statement about
finding a "Jap with a bloody gun butt". And that sends the
sheriff off in one direction to perform an investigation
that is so onesided and incomplete.
Etta Heine is another character that seemed unable to behave
in the right way. She was an unhappy person and she was
determined that others she came in contact with would be
unhappy to. Beginning with her husband Carl. Then she went
on to her one great selfish act - to sell the farm without
even giving her son a chance at ownership and at the same
time cheating the Miyamoto's out of their land.
I'm not going to go through and point out each characters
flaws, it's just that to me Horace and Etta were catalysts
in this whole situation. Like all Monday morning
quarterbacks, it's easy to say how someone should have
acted. And I think David Guterson did a fine job at showing
how feeling, emotions and circumstances add a weighty
covering on lives, obscuring facts and truth much as the
snow lay over the island obscuring vision and creating
difficult situations in maneuvering around.
I was very sympathetic towards Ishmael, he was broken twice
-- his heart by Hatsue, and his body in war. But to his
credit he overcame that and there was a happy ending. And
since I like to project beyond the book, I think he found a
nice girl, had some kids and "got on with his life".
How about Kabuo and Hatsue? How did their Japanese culture
effect their behavior? Hatsue was taught to cultivate
stillness and composure, while Kabuo was taught martial arts
of his warrior ancestors.
Maureen - on a very fall like afternoon
=============== Reply 59 of Note 17 =================
To: KGXC73A GAIL SINGER GROSS Date: 09/26
From: PDSG17A MAUREEN DAVIN Time: 1:22 PM
gail,
If I'm not on the list, please add my name -- I'd love to
hear the tape.
Maureen
=============== Reply 60 of Note 17 =================
To: PDSG17A MAUREEN DAVIN Date: 09/26
From: KGXC73A GAIL SINGER GROSS Time: 10:50 PM
greetings MAUREEN..
it should magically appear any moment..
gail..hp..a passionate reader
=============== Reply 61 of Note 17 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 09/28
From: FDLX59B MARY ANNE PAPALE Time: 5:11 PM
Jane,
I liked your comments about the snow. I too have been
thinking about the use of the image of snow. Here in
Pittsburgh, it's not unusual to have snows that are so wet
and so heavy that they hang on the boughs of trees. The
trees bend from the weight of so much snow. Have you ever
read stories of roofs collapsing from the heaviness of snow?
All this heaviness is an apt backdrop for the inertia that
plagues Ishmael and the townspeople. MAP
=============== Reply 62 of Note 17 =================
To: FDLX59B MARY ANNE PAPALE Date: 09/28
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 5:21 PM
All you people in snowy places are coming up with such
wonderful connections between the weather and this book. I
felt chilled all the time I was reading it. Had the same
feeling in SHIPPING NEWS. I'm too lazy to look back in this
thread. Did someone mention the parallel between frozen
emotions and the weather? It seemed to be a constant in
both books.
Ruth
=============== Reply 63 of Note 17 =================
To: FDLX59B MARY ANNE PAPALE Date: 09/28
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:38 PM
Mary Anne and Ruth,
Sometimes the roofs here collapse because of the weight of
hail which clogs up the gutters and causes rainwater to
collect on flat roofs. A few years ago, a mall roof
collapsed because of this phenomenen. I have decided that
it is best never to have a flat roof no matter what the
climate. The snow is indeed a major character in SFOC.
Jane in warm and lovely Colorado.
=============== Reply 64 of Note 17 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 10/03
From: DHGK37A ERNEST BELDEN Time: 1:12 AM
Jane and Ruth, The art of a fine writer consists in part of
the inclusion of various matter which in the reader creates
a special feeling. This is sort of an understatement.
Perhaps it consists of an unconscious quality which is
passed on to the reader. These various matters are well
intertwined and therefore are hard or even impossible to
analyse or isolate. Since you Ruth are an artist I would
suppose you know what I am talking about. The power of
these unconscious factors make the difference between great
art or reportage. While teaching at one of the penal
institutions I met a top artist, a painter and was most
impressed by one of his paintings. I told him so and
naively asked what it all means. So he made an attempt of
explaining and finally just said: "I don't really know and
when I try to figure it out, it becomes ridiculous." I
never could forget that comment and while in Florence at the
Uffizi just tried to let it sink in and create an emotion, a
feeling. This I could do and often was standing in front of
some art work just with a feeling of awe. Nice to speculate
about these things. Ernie
=============== Reply 65 of Note 17 =================
To: DHGK37A ERNEST BELDEN Date: 10/03
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 7:56 AM
Dear All,
I was exploring the Website simon.says that gail told us
about and found out that on Oct. 9 (I think, you better
check first), they are having a chat session about SNOW
FALLING ON CEDARS. This starts 9 Eastern Time. You must have
chat software of some sort and try it out first. Email
"Rachel" and she will send you directions. For Mac users you
can download Netscape Chat for free at the Netscape site. I
am going to try to make it...anyone else?
Sherry
=============== Note 18 =================
To: ALL Date: 09/06
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 1:00 PM
SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS: Author Bio ***
David Guterson was born in Seattle in 1956. His father,
Murray Guterson, is a distinguished criminal defense lawyer:
"One of the things I heard from him early on was to find
something you love to do--before you think about money or
anything else. The other thing was to do something that you
feel has a positive impact on the world."
Guterson received his M.A. from the University of
Washington, where he studied under the writer Charles
Johnson. It was there that he developed his ideas about the
moral function of literature: "Fiction writers shouldn't
dictate to people what their morality should be," he said in
a recent interview. "Yet not enough writers are presenting
moral questions for reflection, which I think is a very
important obligation."
After moving to Bainbridge Island in Puget Sound, Guterson
taught English at the local high school and began writing
journalism for Sports Illustrated and Harper's magazine,
where he is now a contributing editor.
His books include a collection of short stories, THE
COUNTRY AHEAD OF US, THE COUNTRY BEHIND (coming from Vintage
in Winter 1996), FAMILY MATTERS: WHY HOMESCHOOLING MAKES
SENSE, and SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS, which won the 1995
PEN/Faulkner Award.
***
(This info is from the Vintage Books reading-group guide
to SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS; free copies are available from
1-800-793-BOOK)
>>Dale in Ala.
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Winner of the PEN/Faulkner Award for Fiction, 1995
...a truly wonderful book and I feel one that will stay in my heart for quite awhile.
Maureen Davin
One thing this book really gave me was a much deeper appreciation for what men of my father's generation suffered during the Second World War.
Ann Davey
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